Mr Milward

[DaveO]

jinkin jimmy posted:

DaveO posted:
I also don't recall him complaining about the team he inherited from Hanley at Saints.

Would that be the one that won the GF Dave?

??

jinkin jimmy posted:

DaveO posted:Coaches can't expect to walk into a team and have their own men in all positions. They know as well as anyone else contracts have to be honoured and a good coach will get the best out of his players whether he signed them or he didn't.

When has Basil ever said this?

He hasn't but I was replying to two e's post where he was using the fact Millward has inherited players as an excuse for things not being as he wanted or going right.

I have seen that sort of thing said several times on this and other message boards as an excuse for Millward. It doesn't wash.

jinkin jimmy posted:

DaveO posted:Millward hasn't got the best out of the existing or the new players so far so basically he has screwed up.

It wasn't Millward that dropped the ball twice when over the line against Catalan.

That is an old argument. Of course he hasn't dropped the ball but are you implying he has no input into how the team players? What is he employed for if he does not?

He has not played the same 17 for one of four games when bar the last one with Lockers out he could have had a settled side. Playing Brown at 13 was his decision and I can't believe you think that was a good idea or in the remotest way justified.

The team has caved in for the second half of all four games and that is an issue a coach needs to deal with I would have thought.

His subs policy is very strange bringing on a player for seven minutes before the end of a match.

jinkin jimmy posted:

DaveO posted:It is ridiculous to write another season off because our new coach hasn't recruited the entire team which is what the calls to give him time seem to amount to.

In your opinion.

Of course it is in my opinion, that is what this place is for. Expressing opinion. If you disagree with it say why but to reply with "In your opinion" is not much an argument

jinkin jimmy posted:

DaveO posted:The squad is good enough to have won at least three of the four games so far and IMO a big reason it has not is down to Millwards pointless (no pun intended) tinkering

I disagree.

You are disagreeing that the squad is good enough to have won those games?

jinkin jimmy posted:We lost against Catalan for reasons shown above. We lost against Leeds due to poor defence/running out of gas, not tinkering. That accusation can surely only be laid for the Salford game, which was played in arctic conditions, always guaranteed to be a leveller.

In the Les cats game he went into it with Orr on the bench and Brown on the pitch. In the next game he played Lockers at stand off. In the next game he played Brown at stand off. In the Salford game he played Brown at 13 and Orr at stand off.

If that isn't tinkering I don't know what is.

jinkin jimmy posted:All in all, I'm not panicking until after Friday!![/b]

Losing six points at the start of a season puts the team under pressure for the rest of it. We should have picked up at least another four and in my mind Millward is partly to blame due to poor selection policy, subs policy and a seeming inability to get the team to defend.

No one knows who he will play at 6 this Friday and I bet that includes the players.

So far, Millward is not living up to his reputation.

Dave

[adrenalinxx]

DaveO posted:
That is an old argument. Of course he hasn't dropped the ball but are you implying he has no input into how the team players? What is he employed for if he does not?

He has not played the same 17 for one of four games when bar the last one with Lockers out he could have had a settled side. Playing Brown at 13 was his decision and I can't believe you think that was a good idea or in the remotest way justified.

The team has caved in for the second half of all four games and that is an issue a coach needs to deal with I would have thought.

His subs policy is very strange bringing on a player for seven minutes before the end of a match.

Millwards input into the team could be clearly seen against Huddersfield when every player seemed to know what was going on, but Millward can't instruct player ever second of the game and when things don't go according to the game plan our players can not adapt because we don't have a player who can create something out of nothing which some of the other top teams have. We lost against Salford because the defence moved up quickly and the players had no idea have to play against it. I think it's the leadership on the pitch that is missing O'Loughlin is a good captain but does have the experience of Farrell or Lam who knew have to change a game and how to adapt.

The subs are a bit of a mess at the moment especially in the forwards were we have Feka, Logan and Seu Seu changing around every few minutes. With a Stand Off on the bench it's hard to bring them on during a match because if half backs and playing well and you take one off it can all fall apart.

DaveO posted:
In the Les cats game he went into it with Orr on the bench and Brown on the pitch. In the next game he played Lockers at stand off. In the next game he played Brown at stand off. In the Salford game he played Brown at 13 and Orr at stand off.

If that isn't tinkering I don't know what is.

That is what Millward does, at St Helens he did it he played different players in different positions the problem is that O'Loughlin is only just getting back into playing rugby so moving him about won't help and Brown at Loose Forward was just plain stupid.

I not against Millward moving players about but he has to put some more thought into it instead of just hoping they will play well.

[jinkin jimmy]

Doug and 2 Eyes, great posts. Couldn't agree more that for some reason DaveO isn't seeing things straight - could be a personal issue with Basil?

The only downside with disagreeing with Dave is the length of his responses!

[Fraggle]

TWO EYED WARRIOR posted:
Millwards position at Saints was entirely different as he inherited a position at Saints from a highly organised and a perfectionist in Ellery Hanley, anyone could have walked into Saints and would have needed to do very little to the set up only keep it ticking over.

So perhaps his much vaunted skills as a coach are overstated because he didn't actually do much at Saints except take an already good team and take advantage of Hanley's good work...? :sly:

[DaveO]

TWO EYED WARRIOR posted:
Dave im sorry but you are not right.You say that he hasnt inherited a situation at Wigan then what has he walked into and dont just point to the playing staff, the whole organisation at Wigan has been in some disaray at Wigan for a number of seasons because of swaps and changes that have taken place.

The is only time Millward inherited a situation at Wigan was last season. This season he has had input to change it where he can and where contracts allow.

Millward has already been able to make changes so he is further on in altering the "inheritied situation" than last season.

The point I am making is that all new coaches inherit what is there already and have to make a go of what they have got regardless.

If you look at the squad and how long Millward has had it together (since October for the bulk of it) I think it is fair critisim to complain about the results so far.

So I think saying he inherited the squad so that is the problem is a) not true because he has had significant input into it b) making excuses for him.

I am not saying sack the coach but he should have done better with what he has got.

Millwards position at Saints was entirely different as he inherited a position at Saints from a highly organised and a perfectionist in Ellery Hanley, anyone could have walked into Saints and would have needed to do very little to the set up only keep it ticking over.

So what does that say about Millwards coaching ability? If he inerited a good squad does it not mean we don't know how good a coach he is?

I don't think that is the case. He could have easily ruined Saints squad. He obviously influenced how the squad he inherited played. If he had no influnce on what he inherited you may as well let Lindsay coach the side.

Equally therefore he is influencing how Wigan are playing at the momement. His selction policy and subs policy is clear evidence of that.

On the field you cannot say he hasnt inherited players from previous coaches who are being hotly debated on this site regarding there commitment and there ability i.e Danny Orr and David Vaeliki for starters,The bulk of the squad is from pre millward era, except for the six or so players who he signed who as i say will take time to gel with the other members of the squad.

So what? It is his job to get the players playing to their potential where ever they came from. That is his job. The debate about Orr is often why isn't he as good as he was at Cas.

It is Milleards job to get him to play as well as his past performances at his previous club shows he can. He may be trying to do that for all we know but regardless of that I just doen't see the relevance of the fact he inheritied some players and not others.

They are what he has to work with and I don't think he is getting the best out of them. That is all that matters.

Iam convinced Dave you have a big problem with Millward

I don't have any problems with Millward as some have, i.e. his manner or personality.

The only problem I have with him is that I disagree with how he is running the team

as you dont really come up with any solutions, to the problems,

That is simply not true. I have been offering my solutions from the start of the season. Playing a settled side being one which it appears Phil Clarke agrees with.

Playing players in the their correct positions is another.

i dont expect miracles myself but what i do expect is to see steady progress and there have been glimpses of that under millward on and off the pitch, apart from Salford, when Millward admitted that performance was a step back Millward has been honest and upfront about the situation at Wigan and it will take some considerable time to put right.

I think there are possibly one or maybe two people in this web site who are not surprised the squad is going as it is. The majority saw the players we had on paper and expected a big improvement that has yet to materialise.

So far it has played one decent 40 mins of fottball and all of a sudden it it time to make excuses for it. The defence, a Wigan strong point is leaking points.

At all big clubs in sport, people need time to get things right e.g Alex Ferguson was on the verge of the sack after a few years in charge then bang! United where the hottest thing in Football.

John Monie walkked into a similar situation on his second term at Wigan with players taking the p=== out of the club pretending to be injured but in time he took us to the Grand Final and won it.

Ive certainly not written this season off but i am realistic about what we will acheive, you seem to want shut of Millward before he even gets going which would be the worst thing we can do or we would be back to square one.

If you read my posts you will notice I have never said we should get rid of Millward.

Why does strong critisism which I feel is justified equate to sacking the coach?

I think like me you are frustrated with the current Wigan that we see and care about so much but it is time we give someone the time needed to put us back up there challenging for honours.And not call for his head after 4 games

As I said I am not caling for his head but if I met him in the street I'd be quite happy to ask him what he is playing at.

Dave