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cpwigan posted:
Cruncher, I think some of our players are simply not good enough. Although, if IM seriously thinks Brown is as good as he suggest then i do worry

I agree, we are woefully short of top-6 standard players. We've recruited very poorly in recent years, and as for Brown, well I think he's had long enough to show what he can do. The guy scores the odd try, but he also makes mistake after mistake in every game, and his defence is almost as poor as Vaealiki's, and that's seriously saying something. Time for him to go, I reckon (and no doubt, the moment he arrives somewhere else, he'll start to tear the league up with a dazzling array of previously unseen talents - like goal-kicking maybe; remember Henry Paul at Bradford???!!!???).

Even so, we can't unload all these guys at once (not until we're relegated, at least) so in the meantime I think a change of off-field leadership is the only possible avenue.

For what it's worth, and I've said this somewhere before so I apologise if I'm repeating myself, but the best option for a new boss now might be a former Wigan player-turned-coach - someone with good managerial skills and a strong emotional attachment to the club. Only someone like that, I think, could immediately inspire both players and fans alike. Who could that be? Shaun Edwards?, Andy Farrell?, Ellery Hanley? - none would be easy to recruit, and we don't know if any of them would even be up to coaching at SL level. Now may well be the time for desperate gambles, though, as the alternative is unthinkable. Just out of interest, what's Graham Lowe doing these days?

Cruncher posted:
We've recruited very poorly in recent years

But only with the benefit of hindsight. Who could have predicted that recognised internationals and highly rated players like Ainscough, Howard, Orr, Moran, Seuseu, Richards, Calderwood, Higham, Vaealiki and the rest would fail to reproduce the form they should elsewhere when they came to Wigan? There's a list of names that, based on reputation, most clubs would be falling over themselves to sign, but they've come here and not exactly shone (and I know it's early for Higham, Richards and Calderwood, but in a poorly-performing team none of these are exactly leading the side in trying to improve). When you also consider that people couldn't wait to get rid of the likes of Aspinwall, Wild and Hodgeson, who have all gone on to better form elsewhere, you have to wonder what's been happening to players at Wigan in recent years? They should all have been good or very good players (much as I criticised the likes of Ainscough and Harvey NoYards), but for some reason it didn't work for them at Wigan. It did work for them at other clubs, but we can only recruit based on form elsewhere otherwise we might as well just sign any old random player.

MILLWARD SHOULD GO, AND BRING BACK JOHN KEAR LOOK WHAT HE DID AT HULL

AINSCOUGHWRIGHT 81 posted:
MILLWARD SHOULD GO, AND BRING BACK JOHN KEAR LOOK WHAT HE DID AT HULL

He won them the cup and then the team went to pot, only beating Warrington (in playoffs) and the bottom 3 sides in the latter part of the season. If you listened to their captain's and chairman's comments on Boots 'N' All you would know his sacking was a long time coming and by no means a suprise.

Emma - Please will you add some punctuation to your messages. I am struggling to understand your large unpunctuated sentences.

robjoenz posted:

AINSCOUGHWRIGHT 81 posted:
MILLWARD SHOULD GO, AND BRING BACK JOHN KEAR LOOK WHAT HE DID AT HULL

He won them the cup and then the team went to pot, only beating Warrington (in playoffs) and the bottom 3 sides in the latter part of the season. If you listened to their captain's and chairman's comments on Boots 'N' All you would know his sacking was a long time coming and by no means a suprise.

Kear was a waste of space last time he was at Wigan, he'd be no better again. I've never really understood what the fuss was about with him, he's never shown much as a coach on a week-by-week basis, although I suppose if you look at his trophy record he does better than many people. But that Hull team was McRae's, not Kear's, and from what has been said in the media it's clear he and the players did not get on at all.

Fraggle posted;
and from what has been said in the media it's clear he and the players did not get on at all.

Ditto Millward and Wigan?

People pretend we were doing okay and the odd trophy has helped that but from SL onwards we have been on a downward spiral.

We also talk about signings but maybe just maybe we expect too much from them. We now see signings as a panacea to all our ills.

It never was that way in the days of Gregory, Edward, Hanley. The foundations / cornerstone of the team were already there. The new players were given time to become the extra icing on the cake. Botica, Miles, Inga all needed time to adapt to either a new sport or a new country. They got that and flourished.

So called ordinary players came to Wigan and saw what was required. They weren't told. It was staring them in the face, day after day. They rose to the challenge / the example and the likes of McGinty, Byrne had great careers at Wigan.

Winners are mentally stronger and hungrier. therefore, they put everything into their need to be successful. There were and are, plenty of more talented/gifted players who fell by the wayside. Far too many currently litter the streets of Wigan!

cpwigan posted:

Winners are mentally stronger and hungrier. therefore, they put everything into their need to be successful.

That's why I think we should maybe looking for someone who can re-inculcate the attitude of former years. Mind you, as someone mentioned, Shaun McCrea wouldn't be a bad option.

were is the kevin brown and david vaealiki option on the vote?

Cruncher posted:

cpwigan posted:

Winners are mentally stronger and hungrier. therefore, they put everything into their need to be successful.

That's why I think we should maybe looking for someone who can re-inculcate the attitude of former years. Mind you, as someone mentioned, Shaun McCrea wouldn't be a bad option.

Please one Saints cast off is enough!