Our fate was sealed last week

[Matthew]

robjoenz posted:
You all dislike Cunningham and Saint Helens hence want there to be intent.

You love referees and playing devils advocate - so you prefer to stand against us.

If you couldn't see that Cunningham went in with intent to harm Richards then you should fit right in with your mate ashley as a SL ref

Ever thought of just giving up being a Wigan fan and just supporting the refs?

[cpwigan]

Actually Rob, most tackles are not completed with the intention of hurting an opponent. The primary aim in the modern game is a slow tackle completion/POTB. Now if you accept that. What KC did was not going to secure that objective. He could have approached that tackle using two alternative approaches and neither include what he did. Odd that he did not choose either given his experience and 'talent'

[right cross]

cpwigan posted:
Your right Pompey. Fielden caught Fozzard with his head. I do have a concern re all this bandaging some players wear. I think generally it is there for malicious reasons when it is on the lower arm.

For me, Klein failed in the fundamentals rather than violent play. Bar Cunningham and some shots on Trent it was relatively clean especially given it was a derby. The players were getting agitated by poor refereeing of releasing the tackled player and around the POTB. It is fundamentals that Klein lacks.

Apart from Rob Anybody think referees are any better for being full time?

imo, the problem is inconsistancy ,you watch thaler one week letting the game flow thus makeing it a spectical then you get others the next week stop starting a game ,WHY ,who is at fault, someone must be refing it wrong ,the players and coaches must be pulling there air out at times ,what we need is a vote from every super league player on which way they want the game refing ,letting the game flow or stop starting every 2 mins.

sorry as for the question ,no they have got worse ,remember the first couple of games this season ,klien and ganson blowing up all the game [thank god for thaler ].

[robjoenz]

Matthew posted:

robjoenz posted:
You all dislike Cunningham and Saint Helens hence want there to be intent.

You love referees and playing devils advocate - so you prefer to stand against us.

If you couldn't see that Cunningham went in with intent to harm Richards then you should fit right in with your mate ashley as a SL ref

Ever thought of just giving up being a Wigan fan and just supporting the refs?

My point is that injury was caused by the timing of the tackle. At full speed that timing is a fraction of a second. How could Cunningham have backed out of it? You've played rugby haven't you Matthew, you will know that in big games you go into tackles with an extra aggression, to legally hurt your opponent, just to knock them off their game, not injure them.

By the way... I am a fanatic rugby league supporter, not specifically Wigan. I'll watch anything.

cpwigan posted:Actually Rob, most tackles are not completed with the intention of hurting an opponent. The primary aim in the modern game is a slow tackle completion/POTB. Now if you accept that. What KC did was not going to secure that objective. He could have approached that tackle using two alternative approaches and neither include what he did. Odd that he did not choose either given his experience and 'talent'

You misunderstood my point cp. The third man in the tackle is to slow down the resulting play-the-ball. However, if players can legitimately rough their opponent up they will do. Nothing wrong with some aggressive tackling.

He could have just fallen on lightly as the tackle was completed (before completion) but is that going to put Richards off his game? No, but a bit of properly timed aggression might.

[turf]

right cross, it all boils down to different interpritations of the rules depending on who is refereeing.

[cpwigan]

Rob I am going to post a critique probably tomorrow as I watched the game on Sky today for the first time. I actually thought the camera work and replays were woeful but that is another matter.

Just to get you started.

Penalty 1 in the match is quite possibly the most pathetic and unnecessary penalty ever awarded. It was a disgrace. If somebody sat Klein down, they could say you awarded that BUT every tackle completion / POTB was slower and worse thereafter. He has no defence.

Here is my overiding concern. I honestly believe Klein is the worst referee in SL possibly even amateur (amateur referees are fantastic at this IMO) for safeguarding the safety of the players in his charge. Fielden he played on. Richards he played on. Both dire, the Richards one was the worst. Surprisingly Wigan conceded penalties immediately after. Again, I thought he was poor as regards high challenges. Here is part of my honesty. Early doors, he had 3 opportunities to penalise Wigan for high shots. We got away with a blatant grapple.

Here is another dilemna for officials. They need to understand the game and how it is changing.

Firstly, I think referees need to be aware of a variation on the grapple. Cayless repeatedly tackled Trent by coming over his shoulder, gripping shirt/shoulder but it still brings his arm into contact with Trents head.

Cunningham showed the person he is in his reaction to Fielden. Very different to the Saints players generally I may add. Adrian Morley has perfected a deadly assault method. What he does is keep his hands close to the side of his body and rushes at an opponent. As he makes contact with the ball carrier he moves his arms forward aiming for the arm to make contact with the ball carriers head. He recently KOed one player doing it. KC used that technique, he threw a short arm at Richards head. The body gives him the momentum, no need to swing the arm full. Indeed, it is better not to because compressed force from a short arm jab is much better. I am huge boxing fan. When a boxer punches, the best punch is one that if the opponents head was not in the way. would finish several inches, maybe more past the face of his opponent. It still has huge energy. If you hit someone at the full extension of a movement, your energy is dissipated and the impact far less.

Kleins disreagard for players safety was awful.

Try or no try, Klein has no defence for not going to the video referee early when Colbon challenged for a kick.

Oh and you know my view on forward passes

[butt monkey]

cpwigan posted:
Penalty 1 in the match is quite possibly the most pathetic and unnecessary penalty ever awarded. It was a disgrace. If somebody sat Klein down, they could say you awarded that BUT every tackle completion / POTB was slower and worse thereafter. He has no defence.

At the ground, one of my friends argued that, Klown has penalised Wigan in every 1st set of six tackles any opponents have had, irrespective of any (supposed) infringement - has been doing this for a while also! (apparently). I do not have any statistics, to argue one way or another. But, it would be interesting to see, if Klown merely set the "tone" for his judgements throughout the rest of the match with this first penalty.

My friend also added, that if Wigan's opponents knocked on before he had the chance to penalise Wigan, Klown would offer them a differential penalty or some other archaic rule, in order to give them yardage and put Wigan "on the back foot", at an early stage.

Klown regularly does this, giving Wigan's opponents advantage, before attempting some degree of latitude for the remainder of the match.

[Matthew]

For some reason my last post has been attributed to Automatic...

[butt monkey]

Matthew posted:
For some reason my last post has been attributed to Automatic...

That's alright Mathew, I have been on automatic for quite some time .

It happens when (I assume), you start to write a post, after a period of inactivity (longer than normal posts also count) before you actually press the "post" button, it renders it as "automatic" instead of the actual author.

[robjoenz]

I too have just rewatched the game in full for the first time.

I'll start with the Cunningham incident. I believe now even more than yesterday that he will get no case to answer. What I hadn't realised until today was that the first two men in the tackle had not covered the ball so Cunningham had every reason to go in there.

The following 6 frames are taken from the real time recording of the game.








You can see from the first frame that had Cunningham hit him then he would have struck the ball carrying arm.

Now consider that there are 27 frames in 1 second of footage. Therefore, these 6 frames take up approximately a quarter of a second. Based on this I think it unfair to expect Cunningham to realise that due to Richards falling in the tackle he would contact his head.

Had the tackle been made in line with his arm in the first frame he would have had every chance of dislodging the ball legally.