Calderwood exit confirmed

[DaveO]

Won't the time to start shouting be when we see who actually will be playing wing for us next year? Recruitment is not over yet for 2009, is it?

Well Calderwood is IMO a good player, far better than Colbon and we have let Calderwood go. I don't see us bringing in another winger of equal standard and so letting him leave weakens the team IMO. It isn't like the Higham situation where you could argue we are replacing him with a better player.

Liam Colbon is a bright, hard-working, honest professional. He is a good squad player, able to cover more than one position adequately (but not fullback, he'd never played there before until chucked in because of injury on Good Friday, so it's hardly fair to blame him for that). However, he's no winger for a top-level SL side and if Nobby leaves him there as first choice next year after he and IL have had chance to reshuffle the squad further, then I'll kick off too. But why don't we wait and see what happens?

I doubt he will be first choice next year IF Pryce recovers and Phelps gets a deal (effectively replacing Calderwood on th epay role if not in position). The thing is though he should not be first choice this year at this point in time but Nobby plays him him preference to Calderwood and frankly this is a bizarre choice to me. So it calls into question the judgement of our coach.

I also don't think anyone blames Colbon for being poor at full back and centre. The blame lies at Nobles feet for playing him there. Him playing in these positions just isn't an argument to retain him as a versatile squad player as others have said because he is not good enough in these slots. He is also IMO just a winger like Calderwood and not as good.

You don't rebuild a squad in one season - for 2008 some changes were made but there are quite a few players off-contract at the end of the season and in 2009 we'll have something nearer what BN and IL want.

As far as I know the only other recognised 1st team players off contract at the end of this season we have not had any official news on is Colbon and O'Carroll. There are several people posting on here saying there was one contract available between these two and Colbon got the nod. If true they made the wrong choice.

On Calders I think he's been unlucky with the service he's had as a winger and with the leg break and ankle dislocation he got at Hull. When we've seen him this year he hasn't looked confident and has cut back inside instead of taking people on on the outside. It just didn't work out for him here for a number of reasons, and that's the way it goes for players sometimes. He's always been a hard-working and whole-hearted player for us and I wish him the best in future except when he plays against us.

I think the criticisms of Calderwood are largely unfounded. IMO he is out because Noble has never liked him as a player as evidenced by his refusal to pick him for GB when he was the top winger in the league. If the club has concluded he has issues relating to his injury then do you not see double standards in the way he has been treated compared to Pryce?

Dave

[cpwigan]

Colbon IMO actually played better at loose forward in the reserves/academy than he ever did as a centre/winger.

Calderwoods comment that he was not shocked his contract was not being renewed may explain why he has not looked confident/assured this season. When your boss treats you like dirt do any of us produce our best?

[MrDave]

Colbon IMO actually played better at loose forward in the reserves/academy than he ever did as a centre/winger.

Calderwoods comment that he was not shocked his contract was not being renewed may explain why he has not looked confident/assured this season. When your boss treats you like dirt do any of us produce our best?

I would agree he seemed to play a lot better in the academy when playing at loose forward or second row. He was very good at spinning out of tackles abit like Jon Wilkin at St Helens.

I don't think his defence is at a good enough standard to play second row or loose forward in the first team.

[El Bobbers]

Unless he is replaced this is a big decision, I can't say we'll miss because he hasn't played enough to be able to miss him which is very disappointing because he is fast and very committed near the try line something we are missing. At the end of the (I hate that phrase and appologise for using it) he is an out and out finisher something we haven't got anywhere else in the team and something every other successful team has.

Thing is though he isn't any good at running from the play of the ball something that Wigan have being doing a lot for years (this irritates because it doesn't allow for an expansive game).

Ho much does he earn? How big a chunk of the SC does he take? £70K according to JJ.

Sorry DaveO, I can't believe this to be true now, when did JJ give out this info? As we have seen with Trent Barrett wages are staggered and will increase over time especially when the contract involves big name players. If this is the case and I am expecting it probably is, it will free up more of the cap than we expected, though this isn't a good reason for him to be released unless we have a replacement who is as good or better.

The thing with sport is it's all about opinions and it's the same for coaches as it is for fans, whether we agree with those opinions or not it's tough.

Warrior. Just to add it would be DW/ML and IL (Wigan RLFC) that would be held legally responsible. Indeed, I guess bar a few ill chosen press quotes both ML and IL simply support decisions taken by Noble. An employment tribunal may argue they should not have done/do so.

CPW I know you are referring to a constructive dismissal post but I can't see what else they can do? I would be seriously peeved if they start to meddle with team selection good or bad. Oh and I don't think he would have a chance with a constructive dismissal claim but I ain't arguing about that as it is irrelevant.

Saying that I wish him all the best for the future.

[cpwigan]

Your right El Bob. CD cases are very difficult anyhow and rarely if ever applied in professional sport. The only example of any employment tribunal in RL I can think of in RL was Paul Sterling v Leeds. That was racial discrimination though.

[Mike]

I think cpwigan's (sometimes rather over-the-top) posts have had some effect in changing peoples attitudes on this site, despite the arguments they have provoked.

Since calderwood's release has been made public quite a few people have become more anti-Nobbyish, at least a little more than they were. I find these changing views quite surprising as surely everyone could see this coming a mile off. Frankly as soon as Noble came to Wigan there was a big chance that Calders would be out as soon as Noble could get him out, that much was clear from his consistent ommission from any GB setup BN was involved with. His selection over the last 2 seasons have done nothing to disprove the assumption that Noble does not rate Calderwood and never will.

Perhaps everyone who's view has changed over this issue was hoping that Noble would see the light and start utilising the current personnel to maximise their ability rather than picking the best team to fit into his game-plan. Its a shame he has not done that, but it is also very unlikely that he would start to do it now when he has an opportunity to mold the squad to his strategy by releasing the mis-fits. It is disapointing to have this confirmed though.

Personally I'm disappointed about Calderwood (but not about losing Higham - the manner of his departure is another matter), but the writing was on the wall two years ago. I'll try to withhold judgement on Noble's vision for Wigan Warriors 2009 until we see what replacements are brought in. Remember we can't even talk to under-contract UK-based players until Sept 1st without their current club's consent. Maybe 2009 will see the Pryce brothers reunited or something? (doubt it though...)

[Matthew]

Maybe 2009 will see the Pryce brothers reunited or something? (doubt it though...)

Big Karl holds them down, while Leon...

[DaveO]

I think cpwigan's (sometimes rather over-the-top) posts have had some effect in changing peoples attitudes on this site, despite the arguments they have provoked.

Since calderwood's release has been made public quite a few people have become more anti-Nobbyish, at least a little more than they were. I find these changing views quite surprising as surely everyone could see this coming a mile off. Frankly as soon as Noble came to Wigan there was a big chance that Calders would be out as soon as Noble could get him out, that much was clear from his consistent ommission from any GB setup BN was involved with. His selection over the last 2 seasons have done nothing to disprove the assumption that Noble does not rate Calderwood and never will.

I think it boils down to the honeymoon period being over for Noble. So that means some people are prepared to question his decisions and in this case just why Noble doesn't play Calderwood or want him at the club because he is a very good winger.

Perhaps everyone who's view has changed over this issue was hoping that Noble would see the light and start utilising the current personnel to maximise their ability rather than picking the best team to fit into his game-plan.

I think this is very true. I am convinced if Pryce gets fit before the playoffs a back line of Richards, Calderwood, Carmont, Phelps, Pryce would be our best and scare a lot of teams. I have no faith he will pick this combination and will instead put Colbon and/or Mathers in there somewhere at Calderwoods expense.

Its a shame he has not done that, but it is also very unlikely that he would start to do it now when he has an opportunity to mold the squad to his strategy by releasing the mis-fits. It is disapointing to have this confirmed though.

He seemingly must use certain types of player and if the only ones that fit the mould aren't that good he will still use them in preference to different types who are recognised as better players. He will clearly want better players of his type in the team but the fact we have to wait for them one or two more seasons and put up with what we see at the moment shows his limitations as a coach IMO.

IL said early in the season how he was looking forward to seeing the side with Calders in it when back form injury. Clearly he had no idea about Noble's problem with the player and I bet he wonders why he doesn't play him more (despite whatever Noble tells him because I bet he's asked!).

I am convinced if Noble had been coach when Dallas was here earlier in Dallas career we'd be having the same discussion about Dallas being shown the door. Dallas and Calderwood are similar types of player in that their main attacking threat was/is speed as opposed to power. He has no use for such players IMO and that means the prospect of a try being scored for Wigan like Penny scored for Wire in the cup v Saints is just about zero for the foreseeable future. Very boring.

Dave

[Nine]

Yet again, I can only ask why we don't wait until we see what we've actually got for 2009 before kicking off. Everyone's grumbling about us not having a fast winger when they don't even know if we will sign one or not, or even if we have already signed one in Phelps.

Sometimes on here it reminds me of those Harry Enfield Show characters, The Self-Righteous Brothers. They start talking about someone, assume he or she was going to do something in the future and get themselves really worked up and angry about it - even though it hasn't happened and might never happen.

Another thought on Calders - wasn't he getting picked consistently when fit for Wigan last year until the break & dislocation against Hull? OK, maybe he isn't Nobby's preferred option but he certainly was getting plenty of game time before this season. Therefore, does it occur to anyone that maybe the injury he had - and a combination of a break and a dislocation does take some getting over - may have something to do with why he's not getting picked so readily this year? It is possible he's recovered but not to the level he had before - and an out-and-out flying winger, like a racehorse, lives and dies by his speed.

I realise I could be wrong about that, but I think it's worth considering. For what it's worth, I saw Calders a couple of weeks ago nipping round a corner and into a shop - he was noticeably hobbling. Could have been a knock in training, or it might be that the ankle now takes a lot of warming up and gives hm problems after exercise.

[DaveO]

Yet again, I can only ask why we don't wait until we see what we've actually got for 2009 before kicking off. Everyone's grumbling about us not having a fast winger when they don't even know if we will sign one or not, or even if we have already signed one in Phelps.

So do you honestly think we will be making any more significant signings in the backs for 2009? Before TB decided to leave IL said in the program notes at one of the games he expected to sign one or maybe two players for 2009 as we were still contending with the salary cap.

Based on that it is not unreasonable to think we have virtually finalised the squad for 2009?

Sometimes on here it reminds me of those Harry Enfield Show characters, The Self-Righteous Brothers. They start talking about someone, assume he or she was going to do something in the future and get themselves really worked up and angry about it - even though it hasn't happened and might never happen.

But there are some on here who live in a world where the club and Noble are always right....

I realise I could be wrong about that, but I think it's worth considering. For what it's worth, I saw Calders a couple of weeks ago nipping round a corner and into a shop - he was noticeably hobbling. Could have been a knock in training, or it might be that the ankle now takes a lot of warming up and gives hm problems after exercise.

Did he do badly v Leeds or get injured? No. Is he better than Colbon who gets picked ahead of him, yes even the 2008 version of Calderwood is a better player.

If you can explain that selection conundrum please do because I certainly don't think it has anything to do with Calderwoods fitness or form. Stats from Geoff:

this year:
Calderwood 7 tries in 9 games
Colbon 9 in 19

He is just not Noble's type of player and Noble will play his type of player in preference come what may is my view.

Dave