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cpwigan wrote:...one of the keys IMO is the ability to treat every player in the squad / team exactly the same and really make them feel wanted. Unity and a sense of belief, drive, determination are paramount. Saying all that. Any captain is somewhat reliant on his coach/manager enhancing that philosophy. If he is damaging that effort then no captain is ever going to work a miracle...

Does that mean that, in your opinion, O'Loughlin is partially to blame for poor performance through inability to motivate players?

When you look at the effort he puts in; strongs runs and probably an average of 1-2 tackles per defensive set, you think that would be enough motivation for his team mates to put in the same effort to provide the same standard of performance. It surely puts pressure on those not performing.

For those "detrimental" to the captaincy of Trent Barrett last season (and his lack of winning trophies during the few games he did captain them).

During his leadership, he was VERY vocal. He argued with referees, questioning their decisions (maybe even placing pressure on them to not be so "prejudiced" with his side). I saw this, others must have.

Regardless of actual wins per game during his captaincy, he was far more vocal, also after conceding points. He didn't stand in his own little huddle feeling sorry for himself! This was my "interpretation" of captaincy how it should be - regardless of whether the players around him were either good enough to listen or willing to listen.

butt monkey wrote:For those "detrimental" to the captaincy of Trent Barrett last season (and his lack of winning trophies during the few games he did captain them).

During his leadership, he was VERY vocal. He argued with referees, questioning their decisions (maybe even placing pressure on them to not be so "prejudiced" with his side). I saw this, others must have.

Regardless of actual wins per game during his captaincy, he was far more vocal, also after conceding points. He didn't stand in his own little huddle feeling sorry for himself! This was my "interpretation" of captaincy how it should be - regardless of whether the players around him were either good enough to listen or willing to listen.

well said

robjoenz wrote:

cpwigan wrote:...one of the keys IMO is the ability to treat every player in the squad / team exactly the same and really make them feel wanted. Unity and a sense of belief, drive, determination are paramount. Saying all that. Any captain is somewhat reliant on his coach/manager enhancing that philosophy. If he is damaging that effort then no captain is ever going to work a miracle...

Does that mean that, in your opinion, O'Loughlin is partially to blame for poor performance through inability to motivate players?

When you look at the effort he puts in; strongs runs and probably an average of 1-2 tackles per defensive set, you think that would be enough motivation for his team mates to put in the same effort to provide the same standard of performance. It surely puts pressure on those not performing.

No exactly the opposite. What I preach is that the dynamics of any sporting team are down the whole club ethos and that is a 24/7 365 phenomenon. What you see on the field is but a tiny part of that process. Hence why when people clamour for a screaming/barking leader it is incredibly shortsighted.

I consider myself to have very good leadership skills. However, in the wrong environment I may as well be urinating against the wind. Sometimes my leadership skills have worked superbly / other times they have failed miserably. At least in sport you can be more ruthless because weeding out the bad apples is far harder in the normal workplace.

butt monkey wrote:For those "detrimental" to the captaincy of Trent Barrett last season (and his lack of winning trophies during the few games he did captain them).

During his leadership, he was VERY vocal. He argued with referees, questioning their decisions (maybe even placing pressure on them to not be so "prejudiced" with his side). I saw this, others must have.

Regardless of actual wins per game during his captaincy, he was far more vocal, also after conceding points. He didn't stand in his own little huddle feeling sorry for himself! This was my "interpretation" of captaincy how it should be - regardless of whether the players around him were either good enough to listen or willing to listen.

Yet many sucessful captains have argued the last thing a captain should do is exactly that, argue / antagonise the referee. I captained teams at lower levels and the lower the level the more you could intimidate the official. At higher levels you have to be far more astute.

Ellery Hanley, Hugh McGhan were both brilliant manipulators of top officials by keeping them sweet. John Monie threatened to drop Ray Price as captain when he started showing ill discipline. Graham Lowe will probably ay Mark graham was his best ever captain and he never 'barked' nor did Dean Bell for that matter.

Trent's true leadership role was farmore evident off the field than on it.

He led th team like a playmaker should but that is not captaincy. Andy Gregory led teams but Ellery captained those teams.

cpwigan wrote:

butt monkey wrote:For those "detrimental" to the captaincy of Trent Barrett last season (and his lack of winning trophies during the few games he did captain them).

During his leadership, he was VERY vocal. He argued with referees, questioning their decisions (maybe even placing pressure on them to not be so "prejudiced" with his side). I saw this, others must have.

Regardless of actual wins per game during his captaincy, he was far more vocal, also after conceding points. He didn't stand in his own little huddle feeling sorry for himself! This was my "interpretation" of captaincy how it should be - regardless of whether the players around him were either good enough to listen or willing to listen.

Yet many sucessful captains have argued the last thing a captain should do is exactly that, argue / antagonise the referee. I captained teams at lower levels and the lower the level the more you could intimidate the official. At higher levels you have to be far more astute.

Ellery Hanley, Hugh McGhan were both brilliant manipulators of top officials by keeping them sweet. John Monie threatened to drop Ray Price as captain when he started showing ill discipline. Graham Lowe will probably ay Mark graham was his best ever captain and he never 'barked' nor did Dean Bell for that matter.

Trent's true leadership role was farmore evident off the field than on it.

He led th team like a playmaker should but that is not captaincy. Andy Gregory led teams but Ellery captained those teams.

Ellery Hanley never stopped talking to refs and yes he did argue with them..It is my view that you can get to a ref and influence his decision making... Does anyone remember Hanley being sent off for arguing with the ref?

Well he was and yes he was playing for Wigan at the time.

Wigan Watcher wrote:

cpwigan wrote:

butt monkey wrote:For those "detrimental" to the captaincy of Trent Barrett last season (and his lack of winning trophies during the few games he did captain them).

During his leadership, he was VERY vocal. He argued with referees, questioning their decisions (maybe even placing pressure on them to not be so "prejudiced" with his side). I saw this, others must have.

Regardless of actual wins per game during his captaincy, he was far more vocal, also after conceding points. He didn't stand in his own little huddle feeling sorry for himself! This was my "interpretation" of captaincy how it should be - regardless of whether the players around him were either good enough to listen or willing to listen.

Yet many sucessful captains have argued the last thing a captain should do is exactly that, argue / antagonise the referee. I captained teams at lower levels and the lower the level the more you could intimidate the official. At higher levels you have to be far more astute.

Ellery Hanley, Hugh McGhan were both brilliant manipulators of top officials by keeping them sweet. John Monie threatened to drop Ray Price as captain when he started showing ill discipline. Graham Lowe will probably ay Mark graham was his best ever captain and he never 'barked' nor did Dean Bell for that matter.

Trent's true leadership role was farmore evident off the field than on it.

He led th team like a playmaker should but that is not captaincy. Andy Gregory led teams but Ellery captained those teams.

Ellery Hanley never stopped talking to refs and yes he did argue with them..It is my view that you can get to a ref and influence his decision making... Does anyone remember Hanley being sent off for arguing with the ref?

Well he was and yes he was playing for Wigan at the time.

I wish he was here to answer you but nothing could be further from the truth. He used to patronise referees, cadjole them and would often reinforce their message to the player being spoken to albeit for effect rather than reality.

He was indeed occasionally disciplined. Very rarely and that came about when the media created a storm about Ellery being too influential and refereeing games. Top officials often kick back just to prove a point.

Top officials are not like park officials. They have got where they have because they will stand up to players. Only the very best players are even tolerated. Lesser or younger players are given short shrift.

Faz was a barker but he was on his own in that respect and it probably had more to do with the fact those around him were weak and left everything including playmaking to him. IIRC Endacott tried to rectify this.

If only captincy was about screaming and shouting

Lockers divides opinion and thus whatever he does there is asection of Wigan fans who will never see anything good in him either as a captain or a player.

cpwigan wrote:

Wigan Watcher wrote:

cpwigan wrote: Yet many sucessful captains have argued the last thing a captain should do is exactly that, argue / antagonise the referee. I captained teams at lower levels and the lower the level the more you could intimidate the official. At higher levels you have to be far more astute.

Ellery Hanley, Hugh McGhan were both brilliant manipulators of top officials by keeping them sweet. John Monie threatened to drop Ray Price as captain when he started showing ill discipline. Graham Lowe will probably ay Mark graham was his best ever captain and he never 'barked' nor did Dean Bell for that matter.

Trent's true leadership role was farmore evident off the field than on it.

He led th team like a playmaker should but that is not captaincy. Andy Gregory led teams but Ellery captained those teams.

Ellery Hanley never stopped talking to refs and yes he did argue with them..It is my view that you can get to a ref and influence his decision making... Does anyone remember Hanley being sent off for arguing with the ref?

Well he was and yes he was playing for Wigan at the time.

I wish he was here to answer you but nothing could be further from the truth. He used to patronise referees, cadjole them and would often reinforce their message to the player being spoken to albeit for effect rather than reality.

He was indeed occasionally disciplined. Very rarely and that came about when the media created a storm about Ellery being too influential and refereeing games. Top officials often kick back just to prove a point.

Top officials are not like park officials. They have got where they have because they will stand up to players. Only the very best players are even tolerated. Lesser or younger players are given short shrift.

Faz was a barker but he was on his own in that respect and it probably had more to do with the fact those around him were weak and left everything including playmaking to him. IIRC Endacott tried to rectify this.

If only captincy was about screaming and shouting

Nothing could be closer to the truth. Hanley would explain to refs his opinion and even evaluate them and tell them. Hanley was a clever player and he did use to disagree with refs strongly .That is why he is one of the few players to be sent off for ARGUING with a ref.

Wigan Watcher wrote:

cpwigan wrote:

butt monkey wrote:For those "detrimental" to the captaincy of Trent Barrett last season (and his lack of winning trophies during the few games he did captain them).

During his leadership, he was VERY vocal. He argued with referees, questioning their decisions (maybe even placing pressure on them to not be so "prejudiced" with his side). I saw this, others must have.

Regardless of actual wins per game during his captaincy, he was far more vocal, also after conceding points. He didn't stand in his own little huddle feeling sorry for himself! This was my "interpretation" of captaincy how it should be - regardless of whether the players around him were either good enough to listen or willing to listen.

Yet many sucessful captains have argued the last thing a captain should do is exactly that, argue / antagonise the referee. I captained teams at lower levels and the lower the level the more you could intimidate the official. At higher levels you have to be far more astute.

Ellery Hanley, Hugh McGhan were both brilliant manipulators of top officials by keeping them sweet. John Monie threatened to drop Ray Price as captain when he started showing ill discipline. Graham Lowe will probably ay Mark graham was his best ever captain and he never 'barked' nor did Dean Bell for that matter.

Trent's true leadership role was farmore evident off the field than on it.

He led th team like a playmaker should but that is not captaincy. Andy Gregory led teams but Ellery captained those teams.

Ellery Hanley never stopped talking to refs and yes he did argue with them..It is my view that you can get to a ref and influence his decision making... Does anyone remember Hanley being sent off for arguing with the ref?

Well he was and yes he was playing for Wigan at the time.

That was against Bradford, and he was sent off at half time going down the tunnel for arguing with, I think it was Robin Whitfield?