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DaveO wrote:

Matthew wrote:An interesting thread...

Whether it was luck, tactical genius or alignment of the planets; it was nice to beat saints so convincingly after so long.

Would people prefer us to have lost if that meant Ainscough playing?

Of course not but do you think we would have lost if he had played? We may have won by more. We just don't know but I do not think we would have lost because the rest of the team played very well and we were better across the park. That is how it should be and really the last player anyone should be worrying about to cost us games is the winger. It's not as if there is anything in this notion Ainscough is a defensive liability compared to the other backs.

No I don't think that we would have lost; but that wasn't the point I was making. The point I was trying to make is that despite our best win against our most hated rivals for 5 years; people are still finding fault with Noble's selection. Some people are so focused on the local lads that they complain regardless of the result if they don't play. If you had told me that we would beat stains by 20 points and lose a close match when we played them; then I wouldn't have cared if we had played the cheerleaders, mascot and board of directors. I too would like to seen Ainscough play; but my first priority is for us to win the match.

DaveO wrote:

Matthew wrote:I do think that Noble picks too much on reputation (and I certainly think that Mickey Mac should stay in the side instead of Piggy). However on Saturday he did the job and should receive the plaudits for coaching a team who totally out-played the league leaders.

He clearly wanted to select that side v Wakefield. He could not and Ainscough goes and scores four tries. He ignores this and selects the side he wanted.

Whilst I do think that Noble is guilty of picking established players; whether he has been forced to or not, both Tomkins and Ainscough are featuring in the side this year and will continue to do so. Smith was dropped for Tomkins and whilst I was disappointed that Smith was back as first choice; after the way he played on Saturday; it is clear that something has happened in training and the team is benefiting as a result in his improvement.Whilst he may only be sub; Tomkins is still in the side and has not dropped back to the reserves.

DaveO wrote:

Matthew wrote: I like Sean Ainscough a lot and I think that he has a fantastic future at Wigan. However, first and foremost I want Wigan to win - and for whatever the reason, on Saturday we did. I will have no problem if the same 17 players win every game for the rest of the season.

Then surely that 17 should have been the one that won v Wakefield? Why not? it was a winning team.

No argument there; except to say that I am not privy to what goes on at training. Noble picked the squad he did on Saturday for a reason and whatever it was; it worked. I have been as harsh a critic of Noble as anyone; however I think that it is a bit unfair to complain when he finally gets the team to beat stains so convincingly.

DaveO wrote:

Matthew wrote: I'm not going to complain about the team/club/coach after a victory against stains. We've lost far too often (and by too wide a margin) for that. I'm not Noble's biggest fan (see my signature) however on Saturday he got it right and I have no agenda other than to see Wigan win and hopefully play some entertaining RL along the way. When we do that I see no need to criticise.

We would have won with Ainscough in the side and as Geoff says what chances of Riddell being kept out by McIllorum when Riddell is fit? We may well win games if Noble reverts to Riddell and never plays Ainscough again unless forced to but if he did that would I am sure reinforce many peoples view he was not the coach for Wigan despite the results.

You've gone from saying that you think that we would have won (at the start) to saying we would have won with Ainscough in the side...

I agree 100% with dropping Riddell for McIlorum after Saturday. If Noble does bring Riddell back (and he's no better) and we start losing - and he persists with him, then I will complain as loud as anyone.

Results are something that Wigan have been desperately short off over the last (not so) few seasons. If we were to win anything this season; then I think that it is safe to say that the majority of fans would be more than happy; I know I will be.

Ultimately all coaches want to win as many games as possible - that's how they stay employed. We didn't play scintillating RL when Noble saved us from relegation - however I don't think that you would have found many critics of him at the end of that season.

DaveO wrote:

Matthew wrote: And to answer the question of the thread? Richards will not be dropped when fit; full stop. I would imagine it will be the same team next week. In the unlikely event of anyone missing out for Ainscough, it will be Phelps or more likely Roberts.

I am sure it will be the same team and no one is suggesting Richards be dropped. It should have been one of Roberts or Phelps.

Dave

The question of this thread was whether should we drop Richards or Ainscough and I voiced my opinion.

Like you, I also think that it will be the same team against Wakefield as it was for stains and if we get the same result/performance I won't complain - regardless of who does or doesn't play

It seems to me that whatever Noble does he will get criticised by a certain section of fans on here. You can't please al the people all of the time - and as a coach you have to make some difficult decisions - but that's what happens when you are a coach. It's not a popularity competition.


I'm not Nobles biggest fan but neither do I blame hime for everything however, but some of the criticism he gets is just unfounded;

He won't drop the aussie players (or his favourites):

Smith - dropped for a number of games
Phelps - not selected for a number of games when back from injury
Amos -dropped
Mathers - dropped then let go.
Coley - dropped

Richards/Vaialiki - both dropped to reserves for lengthy periods when noble came to wigan.
Even fielden has been dropped to the subs bench - and we're not exactly blessed with much competition in the prop department.

So he actually does drop players (and non english players) so this myth isn't actually true. Just because he doesn't always drop the player you'd like to see dropped is not really the same thing.

Like most coaches there wil be certain players he feels he can rely on - not just because of what they offer with ball in hand or making tackles but with their experience and knowledge on the field, proven decision making under pressure, etc. Bailey is one of those - unspectacular but really tightens our defence up, not just in the stats of tackles made but in teamwork with those around him. A similar player such as Hansen might look identical but doesn't offer the same qualities in helping the others around him - essential in a team sport especially in keeping the defence organised.

IMO this season we have seen far more attacking plays - not the same 5 aimless drives then kick.

We have seen attacking moves employed from teh base of a scrum on our own 20 yard line - who would have thought this last year?

We have seen the ball reach the wings at speed.

We have seen intelligent dummy running and off the ball support - something wigan hardly achieved at al last year.

We have actually seen some planned attacking moves: Hock passing before making contact, Tim Smith sleight of hand - not seen since andg Gregory was here.

What we have also seen is some very inconsistent performances - Catalan first 20 we were great, remaining 60 we gave them the ball on the 2nd tackle far too often and gave them the game. The undeniable fact is though that we have improved as an attacking team, something that many people also seem to refuse to acknowledge.


Re ainscough. I would have liked to have seen him play against saints, but I can still acknowledge that Phelps played very well at full back, and offerred far more link up than Pat ever does, Pat played very well on the wing, so it's difficult to criticise Noble on his selection there. The player under most pressure now is Amos, and I thought he had a pretty solid game.
If nobby never picks ainscough again all season then I think fans will quite rightly have cause to question his choices, especially if we return to our inconsistent form.
If wigan continue to score lots of tries and keep the mistakes down on the wing then he will find it hard to get back into the side though.

IMO Noble will pick him again when either of our back 3 drop off form (and Amos needs to pick up his attacking form otherwise i'd expect ainscough to replace him) or we have injuries. As far as i'm concerned having a problem like this is a fer better thing to be discussing rather than a need to get more quality players in - a sign that we should be able to deal with a long season's competition.