Contract Chaos

[DaveO]

It was always going to take time to re build properly top to bottom especially after Millward went - I'd be quite happy for Noble to be here for at least 2 more years, as I think it will take this minimum for us to lift a trophy again, and if that occurs, we should be looking to extend his contract further.

And what will you say if at the end of 2009 we have once again not made any improvement? That would be three years of no progress. The option on his contract is due then so the club has a decision to make.

What would yours be?

And on another note, given not only have we not improved this year but have actually gone backwards in the league and cup, does Noble have no responsibility for this at all?

Dave

[ddtftf]

If you worked for an employer for 2 years and was no good at the job, would he sack YOU?

[MrDave]

Also just a quick question. Are Wigan the only team who don't have a British (French in Catalans case) halfback in the team? And by this I don't mean in the reserve grade, I mean out of players who would play regularly if needed.

I think your right there, and look at the two best teams in Super League and they both have two British half backs, Long and Pryce at St Helens and Burrow and McGuire at Leeds.

Although it is probably easier to bring in British half backs when the team is playing well in the first place. Wigan need to be playing well before the young players are really going to shine, Sam Tomkins might be good but he can't carry the team like Barrett has be trying to do.

The problem with Smith and Carney is they might play well for a season or two but then they will up and leave and put Wigan back in the same situation.

[pedro]

we avoided relegation and in the process smashed the cap.....would have been better for Noble to do this without signing people left right and centre and do it with the team Millward had.

CC semi final defeat was embarassing and
we made the playoffs losing to Leeds in the semi.....should have lost to Bradford but Calderwood was awesome and was rewarded for doing that and breaking his ankle scoring against Hull by being dropped and released.

This season finishing poorly and no-where in the cup. The trend is we are poor and I cannot see an improvement at all......

Lets wait till next season and if we are unsuccesful again we can always remind ourselves Noble didnt get us relegated!

[DaveO]

It was always going to take time to re build properly top to bottom especially after Millward went - I'd be quite happy for Noble to be here for at least 2 more years, as I think it will take this minimum for us to lift a trophy again, and if that occurs, we should be looking to extend his contract further.

And what will you say if at the end of 2009 we have once again not made any improvement? That would be three years of no progress. The option on his contract is due then so the club has a decision to make.

What would yours be?

And on another note, given not only have we not improved this year but have actually gone backwards in the league and cup, does Noble have no responsibility for this at all?

Dave

Please read the bit in bold Dave, i think that answers your question.

Let's look at it again though-

1st year or half year - Avoided relegation- Pretty successful in my opinion, perhaps you take issue with that. I don't know.

The issue I have is we have not since then played to the standard we did in avoiding the drop after Noble arrived for the latter half of 2006 season. We have gone backwards in both seasons.

This year we have performed even worse in the league and cup already and we are clinging to the hope of a miracle in the play off's to have something to show for this season.

2nd year - Semi -final of cup, and one game from the playoffs - A marked improvement on the year before? :eh:

Have you forgotten what it was like actually watching the side in 2007? It was pretty much like this - not much of a pleasure.

We were as inconsistent in 2007 as we have been in 2008 but this was masked by two semi final appearances both of which showed the club up as not good enough. As predro said the CC semi was an embarrassment. It was not an achievement.

3rd year - Have made the playoffs, who knows how we'll finish it- not me and certainly not you.

Again have you not watched the games? The fact we have made the playoffs (ignoring the early cup exit I see) winning fewer games than last season is not something I see as an improvement.

I don't think anyone is daft enough to think that raw statistic tells the story of our season or proves we are a good side making progress. Watching the games should have told you the opposite.

In answer to the improvement or lack of it come 2009, then it all depends on your view on what makes a successful season. If you are of the mindset that anything other than a league and cup double will suffice, then your living in cloud cuckoo land. if your happy to be more realistic then I would suggest that for next year, a good year would be looking to make the top 4, top 3 overacheiving, and a good run in the cup.

I am certainly not living in cloud cukoo land but what you say above is IMO the kind of improvement we should have got THIS season. I have yet to say any plausible defence from you or anyone else for us having gone backwards apart from we might do well in the play off's.

We may even make the grand final, but I don't see us winning a trophy next year, however i would expect us to have closed the gap on Saints, perhaps not beating them on every occasion but at hopefully once and being competitive, a sad situation, but one where we are at the moment. Hopefully I've answered your questions.

Well if you mean yes you would still give Noble another two years if we have another season like this in 2009, I suppose you have answered that one.

I can't say I see an answer to the simple question of does Noble have no responsibility for our lack of improvement this year.

I notice its a typical Dave O snipe though, ignoring most of my previous post and concentrating on a portion of it. So then Dave as I've been good enough to answer your question designed to patronise, as all your posts seem to be, perhaps you could answer the one I posed my previous post. If you want rid of Noble who would you appoint, who is available, and while you at it how about giving us all and insight into your thoughts on where you see Wigan RLFC at the end of the next season?

Morph...

Don't be so ridiculous. I asked a perfectly straightforward couple of questions as I simply can't see why IF we have another season like this anyone would want to persist with Noble as coach after 2009. We will be the next Warrington if we do IMO.

I am also realistic enough to know we won't sack Noble but that the end of 2009 is definitely a decision time for the club as that is when the option on his contract is up for renewal.

As to who we get to replace him that will depend who is around at the time but I think you need to realise coaches get sacked for failing to do the job, not because there is a ready made replacement available standing outside the entrance.

It is quite plausible for a coach to be sacked (or his contract not renewed) without a club having lined up the replacement. So even if there is no obvious choice making it known they are after a new job, it should not preclude us getting rid of Noble because there is absolutely no way you should extend the contract of a coach that has failed. None at all. That will be the choice the club faces at the end of 2009 if we have another poor season. Renew the contract of a coach who has taken us know where in 3 years or look somewhere else.

Will we actually have another dross season? Well I don't see any great improvement to the squad and we have the same coach so I can't say I am optimistic.

Dave

[thegimble]

In terms of the side going backwards:

Weve gone backwards compared to the side that finished Noble's first season with us due to 2 factors.

1 Props are lightweight teams know if Feka comes on its only for 15-20 min max and then our pack lack physical power. If we get 2 good props then we will be a much better side than now. And Fielden can not do the work of the rest of the props alone. Prescott has been injured and i do think he can be a great prop if he stays fit.

2 Noble has a style of play that takes a certain type of player in the backs. Hence why Calderwood is not his type. Pryce is his type. Noble sides dominates in the forwards and a big physical wing centre partnership does the damage.

If were not improving this time next year then i will be 1 calling for a change. You cant make a great side now in 18 months it takes time especially with the cap.

[pedro]

nearly 30 months

[cpwigan]

2 Noble has a style of play that takes a certain type of player in the backs. Hence why Calderwood is not his type. Pryce is his type. Noble sides dominates in the forwards and a big physical wing centre partnership does the damage.

I believe your premise about Noble's preference is correct. However, how does Phelps for instance fit into that style? Mathers?Lower down the club, Stanton/Ainscough?

Is it not a poor coach that only has 1 style of play and cannot adapt?

[thegimble]

2 Noble has a style of play that takes a certain type of player in the backs. Hence why Calderwood is not his type. Pryce is his type. Noble sides dominates in the forwards and a big physical wing centre partnership does the damage.

I believe your premise about Noble's preference is correct. However, how does Phelps for instance fit into that style? Mathers?Lower down the club, Stanton/Ainscough?

Is it not a poor coach that only has 1 style of play and cannot adapt?

Phelps will go to FB to allow Richards to out wide. Once Nobby realises Mathers is not as good a player as Richards is at fb.

[privateryan]

It was always going to take time to re build properly top to bottom especially after Millward went - I'd be quite happy for Noble to be here for at least 2 more years, as I think it will take this minimum for us to lift a trophy again, and if that occurs, we should be looking to extend his contract further.

And what will you say if at the end of 2009 we have once again not made any improvement? That would be three years of no progress. The option on his contract is due then so the club has a decision to make.

What would yours be?

And on another note, given not only have we not improved this year but have actually gone backwards in the league and cup, does Noble have no responsibility for this at all?

Dave

Please read the bit in bold Dave, i think that answers your question.

Let's look at it again though-

1st year or half year - Avoided relegation- Pretty successful in my opinion, perhaps you take issue with that. I don't know.

2nd year - Semi -final of cup, and one game from the playoffs - A marked improvement on the year before? :eh:

3rd year - Have made the playoffs, who knows how we'll finish it- not me and certainly not you.

In answer to the improvement or lack of it come 2009, then it all depends on your view on what makes a successful season. If you are of the mindset that anything other than a league and cup double will suffice, then your living in cloud cuckoo land. if your happy to be more realistic then I would suggest that for next year, a good year would be looking to make the top 4, top 3 overacheiving, and a good run in the cup. We may even make the grand final, but I don't see us winning a trophy next year, however i would expect us to have closed the gap on Saints, perhaps not beating them on every occasion but at hopefully once and being competitive, a sad situation, but one where we are at the moment. Hopefully I've answered your questions.

I notice its a typical Dave O snipe though, ignoring most of my previous post and concentrating on a portion of it. So then Dave as I've been good enough to answer your question designed to patronise, as all your posts seem to be, perhaps you could answer the one I posed my previous post. If you want rid of Noble who would you appoint, who is available, and while you at it how about giving us all and insight into your thoughts on where you see Wigan RLFC at the end of the next season?

Morph...

I think you must be a defence barrister by occupation because you are seriously deluded if you think that you can make a serious case that year on year since BN took over we have improved. The FACT is that anyone who watches us play week after week knows that no progress is being made whatsoever. You can spout bloody stats all day long, but if you bothered to take off your cherry and white tinted spectacles and actuallly analyse the style of play, the lack of motivation and tactical awareness, and the obvious attitude that mediocre will do because bollocks to it I still get paid whatever the result maybe you would see what a poor side we are. Someone wants to tell these guys that pride is not just a word that appears on a loaf of bread.If it wasn,t for the fact that apart from Saints and Leeds the standard of teams is not much to write home about the situation would be even more embarrasing.One last thought, and an example of what can be achieved with a bunch of players who are in the main average with a sprinkling of decent pro's, there is one team that has improved beyond all recognition this season and I put iy down to bloody good coaching and that is Catalan. God help us next season if Mick Potter carries this forward to the pigsty down the road.Grand Final my a..e more like the Grand Hotel for a few liveners is more likely for our guys after some piss poor performance against Celtic Crusaders.