Wigan Warriors v Harlquins

[mike binder]

So cp you are putting yourself in the position of "The chosen one" eh, as I say "Animal Farm" springs to mind, and you didn't comment on my summary of the poster you were attacking, Just an attack on me.

LOL I just post posts and read posts. I did not mention your comments re Dave. I don't agree with them and had said why previously and given your hyper sensitive state I saw no point in doing so. I felt your hypocritical posturing and totally incorrect statement deserved a response. I notice you did not reply to my post either. No Ghosts named, no recognition of the quality posters that I can see and I am guessing others can. Dave likes debate, I like debate. We are both adults.

I scratch my head though at ponificating about posters/forums especially when Mike provided option beyond to read or not to read. I thought the idea was to post about Wigan RLFC ???

I don't care if I post or do not or if readers think WRONG/RIGHT etc I am not aware of any posting ranks other than Admin/Moderator/Joe Public. I do think your Animal Farm analogy is incorrect and hypocritical posturing that you apparently hate unless you are the one doing it.

dont get involved not worth the trouble

[Dobby]

Should maguire take the blame for all the swapping and messing about , did he take quins to lightly and thought it was a nailed on 2 points ??

How can you blame him for injuries? The changes that were made were all neccessary.

[MrDave]

Should maguire take the blame for all the swapping and messing about , did he take quins to lightly and thought it was a nailed on 2 points ??

I think you can blame Maguire for the attitude of the team. Wigan have struggled against the so called 'lesser' teams, have conceded late point in games where they should have been able to see it out with a big margin and lost games after leading well as half time.

[cpwigan]

Centre is a very difficult defensive position and from this season we can safely say that physically Bails is no longer capable of defending there. It could not have helped having a youngster either side of him. Walker in particular was like a hyperactive bunny burning pointless energy running in circles trying to find his position. Perhaps Bails should have been moved inside and Walker defend outside him but I am not sure it would have made a huge difference. Quins and McDermott in a sense got luck and it may benefit them for future games. They were far better on attack with Dorn at FB. However, but for injury that change would not have happened. I do think Gleeson would have stopped some of Quins attack.

We really miss Lockers being at LF because of the unseen work he does to knit the team together in defence. At LF he shifts to where he can see a need in the defensive line. He really is Mr Perpetual Motion. Every other player is largely fixed into a set position which is why I could not understand Walker. Maybe the pace shocked him. Likewise I am not a huge fan but Hansen works his backside off. Maybe Liam Farrell can fill the spot until Hansen is fit. Farrell is very good at locking on when making tackles. Other players are not so good at it. Even Mossop needs to improve this aspect of his game. It is something the coaching staff wanted Feka to improve. Although I think he did very well v Quins.

The club/coaches have to be criticised because Farrell and then Davies (he could play back row in the first team) and Tuson are all better than Walker and we should be recalling those players before Walker gets a game. Why leave better players out with other clubs to make our team weaker?

I do think as a team and I include the coaching staff we are not learning to kill opposition momentum. The order should be going out to find touch, slow the game down, kill time. One thing that we could have done last night and it's an old Wally Lewis trick. If the opposition commit a foul you start a small brawl, throw a few punches, get angry etc. It stops tempo and focuses the opposition on what just happened.

We need to be making less changes positionally due to injuries BUT it is trick because we are managing to get leads with the teams selected but the defence has not been good enough. I do think we have lost the media war and with it the referees re wrestling which is not helping.

[GeoffN]

I'm not going to be too critical of Walker, who has always been a pretty good defender at Academy level - I'm happy to put it down to being his first game, and with very little training time to get used to the patterns.

As far as centre does, I'd have put JT there rather than Bails. He may not be quite as good a tackler, but he's certainly got a lot more pace (just voted for his try v Wakey!).

As you say, we really miss a lot with Lockers at #6, not so much because he's a poor 6 but because he's an outstanding #13. He's not alone in being a loose forward that doesn't look like a standoff; both Andy Farrell and Paul Sculthorpe had the same problems on the occasions they were tried there.

[cpwigan]

I do think that if the players do not respond several will be show the door by Madge. He has given the squad a fair chance and backed them but they need to stand up and be counted. It is incredibly irritating that we should be unbeaten but have throw 2 games away. The team that beat Wire and Saints has gone missing in the last couple of games. Hopefully, a few players returning from injury may make the difference.

[doc]

A tale of too many kids in at once and playing people out of position.

I thought Ainsy didn't do to bad. He was left woefully exposed for their first try. He produced some tremendous cover tackles without which we would have been on the wrong end of a thrashing.

Bailey had a nightmare at centre and his lack of pace was exposed by Quins left centre and stand-off. He used to be a 2nd row with a decent turn of pace who could cover in the centres. Now he is 2nd row material only (and a slow one at that). He didn' give Ainsy a decent ball allnight. IMO JT or a centre from the reserves would have been a better option in the absence of Gleeson.

Lockers did OK at stand-off but we missed the defensive effort he puts in as LF. Again, I think bringing in a reserve grade player at SO would have been a better option.

Mossop is a 2nd row/prop. What on earth made MM think of playing him at LF. Surely Farrell or JT would have been better options.

[DaveO]

Dave, the winger should catch a kick if it goes to his opposing winger otherwise he is at fault. Full Stop. You forgot to add we missed GOULDING.

Goulding would not have made a blind bit of difference tonight. What exactly would he have done? Just like Ainscough he would have been stuck out there on the right passing the time of day with himself for most of the match.

Now if you mean playing centre that's different. Bailey was so poor it was IMO a virtual career ending performance as a centre for him.

I will tell you one thing Goulding would not have done. Caught the Quins players that made that break in the first few minutes. Ainscough reeled him in with ease and Goulding does not have the pace to do that. Try time with DG in the side for that one don't you agree?

I knew you would pick on that try and blame Ainscough but you are simply wrong. You are being disingenuous because he faced a two on one situation as I described and I seriously doubt if Goulding would have done any better. I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if you were actually pleased we conceded that try.

Goulding has also had the luxury of playing in virtually full strength sides whereas Ainscough's first game this season for Wigan is in a side ravaged by injury.

I doubt you would have anything to complain about if Gleeson had played tonight re Ainscough.

Dave

Possibly your worst ever post Dave. Fair enough you rate Ainscough but to denegrate Goulding whose efforts have been outstanding is way out of order. Anybody being objective recognises how well Goulding has played this season both on the wing and at centre. For you not to give him his props because you perceive it adversely affecting Ainscough is plain wrong. Morally it is out of order.

Look at Geoff's posts. I think Geoff rates Ainsy but he does not let that cloud his judgement of other players

I think you need to look at my post again and take your own advice re Geoff's posts.

If you can explain how any of the above denigrates Goulding feel free to do so.

The comment about him not making a blind bit of difference was reference to having to put up with Bailey as his centre just as Ainscough did. I thought that was obvious but clearly not. Bailey was out of position for the first try and gave Ainscough no service with the ball all evening. Likewise Bailey was directly at fault for two tries - as pointed out by Geoff yet I have seen someone (it may have even been you) post all the tries were scored on Ainscough's side of the pitch with the clear implication it wa shis fault. I fail to see how Goulding would have made any difference when faced with the same situations. Is that clear now?

As to saying Ainscough is faster than Goulding what's the problem of pointing out that due to his faster pace Ainscugh was able to catch a player Goulding most likely would not have?

I also fail to see how saying Goulding has played in a full strength Madge side whereas Ainscough came into an injury hit one is in the least bit denigrating to Goulding. It's simply stating it's easier to do well in a good side than a poor one which is obviously true. In fact IMO those who seem to think Ainscough should have stood out in that side ignoring the fact the side was the poorest we have fielded all season with several below-par performances is IMO just selective vision on their part to back up this weird anti-Ainscough stance that has developed.

And lets get this straight - the only reason I defend Ainscough is because of the over the top and unwarranted criticism he gets from you and others.

You are just not being objective. For example I think you mentioned in passing in one of your early posts that Bailey was not very good basically brushing it under the carpet ever since so you can indulge in your pursuit of Ainscough when everyone knows Bailey was our worst player by a mile.

Dave

[cpwigan]

Dave you are obsessed with Ainscough just as you were with Higham. Based on umpteen matches whether or not Bailey should have been their to cover the knock down is immaterial because Goulding has shown he can deal with kicks on a regular basis. All Ainscough had to do was get one hand to that ball and make it go into touch which was 1 yard away. Yet he did nothing. Yet you blame Bailey. How crazy is that? You do realise when we played Wire at the HJ this season, they spent all week training how to target Ainscough because they thought he would be selected. Thankfully he wasn't and Goulding made a difference and we finally won at the HJ. Need I remind you what happened at the HJ the last time Ainscough played. That is how crazy your asumption Goulding would not have made a blind bit of difference is. It is denegrates his contribution.

Ainscough tackled Penny. He didn't catch him.v When he tackled him he was in line with Phelps and 1 yard from Phelps who yes made a woeful attempt but still put Penny virtually into Ainscough's arms. To say he ran down and tackled Penny is absurd Dave.

I have said Bailey had a shocker. I have said Ainscough was at fault for possibly 2 tries. What nobody knows is whether Ainscough and Walker's poor communication / understanding with Bailey contributed to Bailey looking like a mug. I do know defence is about teamwork so maybe it was a factor especially as we know that out of the 3 players mentioned, Bailey is the best defender and understands defence.

Service? Several passes in the first half or tries scored down that wing by Wigan. I never had Bailey down as a wonderful passer but in recent games he has produced some excellent passes. V Quins the passes ended with Ainscough stopping to catch them. Who was to blame? In the World of Dave, Bailey. However, I do know after watching Ainscough for 5 years that he routinely runs full on, often too early with no regard for the positioning of his centre. In the reserves the team ended up kicking little grubbers through for him rather than passing. Why? because Ainscough would commit himself to running full on past the defensive line and be screasming kick it rather than waiting / timing his runs alongside the inside centre, second rower.

I daresay you will blame Bailey for the lack lustre scoots by Ainscough too Dave? Even you should acknowledge that Goulding's scoots have been vastly superior to anything offered v Ainscough v Quins which makes your statement Goulding would not make a blind bit of difference even more farcical.

Maybe Cas was the right level for Ainscough Dave?

[mickh]

"cpwigan" wrote:
"mickh" wrote:
So cp you are putting yourself in the position of "The chosen one" eh, as I say "Animal Farm" springs to mind, and you didn't comment on my summary of the poster you were attacking, Just an attack on me.


LOL I just post posts and read posts. I did not mention your comments re Dave. I don't agree with them and had said why previously and given your hyper sensitive state I saw no point in doing so. I felt your hypocritical posturing and totally incorrect statement deserved a response. I notice you did not reply to my post either. No Ghosts named, no recognition of the quality posters that I can see and I am guessing others can. Dave likes debate, I like debate. We are both adults.

I scratch my head though at ponificating about posters/forums especially when Mike provided option beyond to read or not to read. I thought the idea was to post about Wigan RLFC ???

I don't care if I post or do not or if readers think WRONG/RIGHT etc I am not aware of any posting ranks other than Admin/Moderator/Joe Public. I do think your Animal Farm analogy is incorrect and hypocritical posturing that you apparently hate unless you are the one doing it.




dont get involved not worth the trouble


I'll take your advice Mike