100% Warrior wrote:Whilst it would be immensely disappointing if the stories are true and we're soon to lose Madge to Souths, I wouldn't begrudge him the opportunity of going to one of the NRLs sleeping giants with the challenge of winning a Premiership with them.
Well I hope you never end up as chairman of Wigan RL. It's not in our clubs interest to keel over and let coaches leave mid way through a contract.
He led us back to the Super League title, granted earlier than we all thought and this could be why NRL clubs are circling so soon to snap him up.
No doubt it is but he should honour his commitment which was a three year deal as I have pointed out in another post despite the speculation it wasn't.
If Madge does choose to leave then there's no point dwelling on the matter as the club will always be bigger than any player or coach.
The vital decision will be replacing him with the right person, whether that is from within the club or outside remains to be seen.
There is an issue with contracts that needs sorting out. We can't have it every time a coach leads Wigan to success we just let them leave and this will set a precident. There is no mileage in being a soft touch because every year NRL coaches will lose their job so are they going to come an nick Wigan's coach with impunity when they need a replacement? We are not an NL1 club who have unearthed a bit of coaching talent but supposedly one of the biggest RL clubs in the world. Madge has just taken us to success and who in their right minds would expect this job and being champions not to be something that ought to get coaches to want to see out their deal?
People are being far to sanguine about this in my opinion. If Madge does leave he should be pilloried.
DaveO wrote:
Good luck? Good riddance more like. If he goes he is a mercenary who has done nothing but use the club to further his ambitions and he has misled the club and fans as to his intentions. He cann leave tomorrow as far as I am concerned if he can't see fit to honour his commitment.
A mercenary is a little harsh. If you have a limited time contract and you get an offer that starts at the end of that contract or at a point where either party can bring the contract to an end, should you not discuss that offer with all parties in private? I'm not sure why that is so wrong.
Its hard to take as the current employer, but then they had to weight the risks of a successful spell leading to an in-demand employee against the difficulty of releasing an unsuccessful employee with a longer term contract. A tough call either way. A big pay off for a bad coach, or potentially losing a good one. Its got to be a balance.
cpwigan wrote:Dave, if Madge has 2 years with an option why do you think it would be wong for him to walk after 2?
He's not got an option. Ihe idea he has is just a rumour. The idea a coach would be given a two year deal is nuts. That is tantamount to a caretaker role. You may think three years is long enough but two certainly isn't.
I was under no illusion it would be hard if not impossible to keep him after three years should the club want to but its pretty clear the plan was for him to be here for three years.
Plenty players get dumped when the option works in the clubs favour and several players have left as/when often for personal reasons. Was Trent, was Piggy wrong to leave?
There is no suggestion of anything other than Madge wanting a different job. It's purely a mercenary decision on his part if true so lets not invent personal problems that don't exist.
DaveO wrote:
Good luck? Good riddance more like. If he goes he is a mercenary who has done nothing but use the club to further his ambitions and he has misled the club and fans as to his intentions. He cann leave tomorrow as far as I am concerned if he can't see fit to honour his commitment.
A mercenary is a little harsh. If you have a limited time contract and you get an offer that starts at the end of that contract or at a point where either party can bring the contract to an end, should you not discuss that offer with all parties in private? I'm not sure why that is so wrong.
Its hard to take as the current employer, but then they had to weight the risks of a successful spell leading to an in-demand employee against the difficulty of releasing an unsuccessful employee with a longer term contract. A tough call either way. A big pay off for a bad coach, or potentially losing a good one. Its got to be a balance.
The balance was the three year length of the contract which is not a long time and pretty much par for the course these days. Any less and all you would ever have is headlines of being under pressure to deliver and after one season speculation if he would keep the job/leave at the end of the second.
Lets not forget Wigan have this reputation of not giving coaches enough time and getting rid without giving them time and I am certain IL will have expected Madge to see the deal out because he employed him for three years. It does not make any sense to keep Noble here for 4 1/2 seasons and give him every chance to prove himself and then give the next coach what amounts to a two year deal.
That not what I was getting at Dave. People leave employment for a host of reasons and do not see out their contracts. I am asking do you think Trent and Piggy were wrong to leave early too?
If you employ a coach from the other end of the world and he is successful then he/she will always be linked with any vacancy. If Bennett went to Souths instead of Knights then the interest in Madge from Crowe would be non existent. If Kearney does poorly at Parra then interest in the Melbourne philosophy may well reduce or heighten towards the main man, Bellamy. Anderson bombing at Parra may raise ? about the worth of success in the SL? There are literally dozens of what ifs / buts?
We do not have access to every piece of the jigsaw. Did Madge not have to return home briefly last season. Has that not impacted upon his thinking thereafter? Maybe there is player unrest? Maybe Lenagan is difficult to work for?
We do not know if he is leaving yet but some are damning him and making judgements with little or no information. Sometimes we need to pause and wait.
DaveO wrote:
Good luck? Good riddance more like. If he goes he is a mercenary who has done nothing but use the club to further his ambitions and he has misled the club and fans as to his intentions. He cann leave tomorrow as far as I am concerned if he can't see fit to honour his commitment.
A mercenary is a little harsh. If you have a limited time contract and you get an offer that starts at the end of that contract or at a point where either party can bring the contract to an end, should you not discuss that offer with all parties in private? I'm not sure why that is so wrong.
Its hard to take as the current employer, but then they had to weight the risks of a successful spell leading to an in-demand employee against the difficulty of releasing an unsuccessful employee with a longer term contract. A tough call either way. A big pay off for a bad coach, or potentially losing a good one. Its got to be a balance.
The balance was the three year length of the contract which is not a long time and pretty much par for the course these days. Any less and all you would ever have is headlines of being under pressure to deliver and after one season speculation if he would keep the job/leave at the end of the second.
Lets not forget Wigan have this reputation of not giving coaches enough time and getting rid without giving them time and I am certain IL will have expected Madge to see the deal out because he employed him for three years. It does not make any sense to keep Noble here for 4 1/2 seasons and give him every chance to prove himself and then give the next coach what amounts to a two year deal.
Brian Noble applied for the Catalan job whilst in post as he is entitled to do? Was that wrong? It also forced Lenagan's hand to extend his contract thereafter. The subsequent non renewal of his contract saga was protracted because IL struggled to find a coach he was happy with. We are led to believe Kearney was offered the job first. Madge was second choice?, time became a factor? Quality coach, club needing a coach, owner under pressure, perhaps Madge was in the box seat when negotiating his contract?
cpwigan wrote:I never expected Madge to stay beyond his contract. I thought it was 3 yrs but I stand corrected and if it is 2 yrs then I have no qualms if he returns home at the end of the 2 yrs.
I have always maintained 3 yrs is the maximum stint for ANY coach. Thereafter, their impact is significantly reduced even if results on the pitch keep ticking over positively.
29wes28 wrote:Unfortunately Josie, after lots of reading and chatting around MM has a 2 year contract with an option for a 3rd year so as long as he stays this term thats contract done if either party want it to be.
John Lang has the reigns at the Souths until the end of this season then he retires, as much as I hate to admit it in this case the slipper seems to fit but to be fair good luck to Madge coaches come and go in this game and Ill choose to remember him for giving wigan glory in 2010 over Stains!
I just wish IL's transparency/open door policy would work both ways, the longer this stays under wraps the more bitter our fickle fans will become, for me IL needs to announce the plan (whatever it may be) and let everyone put their all in to this season and carry on with life as normal!
Just my pennies worth
I too thought it was 3 years, & I now stand corrected after looking into it, thanx for pointing it out.
When Mr Lenegan took over the club, he said it would not be like the old regime of keeping fans in the dark about what is happening. He soon fell into the old ways, he lets all this go on with the detriment to team performance. You always know when there is something going on behind the scenes, it always shows on the pitch.
I'm not a happy bunny .... please excuse the pun
Do you not think the communication with the fans was really Joe Lydon and Mick Hogan. My impression was that Ian Lenagan never enjoyed doing them and that a difficult question often got a curt reply.
Er ... yes :exc:
Anyone can support a team when it is winning, that takes no courage.
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage. #18thMan
cpwigan wrote:Based on something I have been told tonight; People need to stop jumping the gun. The message internally is the opposite of what the press are saying.
Based on something I have just been emailed....it's a done deal
Anyone can support a team when it is winning, that takes no courage.
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage. #18thMan
DaveO, sorry if you don't like it but professional sport contracts don't mean that much. Do we argue if we recruit a coach or player before their contract ends with their previous club?
Why should we expect any different with our club, both players & coaches come and go, it's a fact. If you read again I did say I'd be immensely disappointed if Madge left but what's the point of dwelling on it, it won't make him stay with Wigan.
Of course Wigan are probably the biggest name in club rugby but if you look at the competitions as a whole the NRL is bigger & better than Super League. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just being naive.
Obviously in an ideal world we as supporters expect both players & coaches to serve out their full contracts, but we don't live in an ideal world though.
.... please excuse the pun