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Your idea of a good captain has resulted in bottom of the league up to now. The reason we are a bad team is through lack of team spirit due to bad captaincy and a number of poor coaches. Your quick to criticise farrells techniques as captain, just funny how when farrell left and O'loughlin took over thats when we started to go down hill fast.

demt82 posted:
Your idea of a good captain has resulted in bottom of the league up to now. The reason we are a bad team is through lack of team spirit due to bad captaincy and a number of poor coaches. Your quick to criticise farrells techniques as captain, just funny how when farrell left and O'loughlin took over thats when we started to go down hill fast.

The only reason that we are the bottom of the League is that players have not shown as much commitment as O'Loughlin has.We had a coach who ripped the heart out of the team ,injuries early doors did not help us as we had a virtually new team with very little back up and the squad was not up to it .Now the injuries are clearing up and we have a much settled side the team are getting used to each others play confidence is growing all the time.Brian Noble has transformed the side although we are not safe by any means i am more confident that we will stay up nowwe are in a position that players can be dropped if they do not perform well Richards for one.

Just for the record Radlinsky was captain and he did not perform well as captain.

demt82 posted:
Your idea of a good captain has resulted in bottom of the league up to now. The reason we are a bad team is through lack of team spirit due to bad captaincy and a number of poor coaches. Your quick to criticise farrells techniques as captain, just funny how when farrell left and O'loughlin took over thats when we started to go down hill fast.

I've not criticised Farrell's methods. They worked brilliantly for him. O'Loughlin is a different player, a different person, with a different approach.

The reasons we've struggled are a combination of things, not solely poor leadership. Arguably some players have not been putting the effort in that was required of them. You can never fault O'Loughlin on this and as soon as everyone started to show the same commitment as Lockers we've started winning matches. We've won 4 out of 4 with O'Loughlin as captain don't forget! But I suppose you will credit someone else with O'Loughlin's solid performances.

This is really bordering on pathetic. One minute people moan that Lockers lives off his ties with Faz, and the next they're moaning about the differences between them!

For me, all this 'he doesn't talk enough on the pitch' has been blown right up and lots of people are just being sheep and using it in arguments against him, have a look next time you're at the JJB and I guarentee you Sean will be chatting to the lads quite alot, giving praise and pointers where and when needed.

Most of you calling for his head as captain don't have the first clue what good captaincy is all about and he's not doing a bad job at all.

I can't even be bothered arguing about the quality of his play, he's the ebst youngster we've had in years and it really is silly.

robjoenz posted:
O'Loughlin isn't out there shouting and ranting at the rest of the team, he isn't Farrell like most people want him to be. He's a different player, but if every other player in the Wigan team looked at how O'Loughlin plays it should inspire them to put in 100% effort, as he does.

Danny Orr has never done anything but put in 100% effort either but was critisised for not doing the right thing despite the effort.

The same applies to Lockers. He puts in 100% effort but if he still won't say boo to a goose as captain then that shows he has a failing on that score.

This idea of "how O'Loughlin plays it should inspire them to put in 100% effort" is complete baloney in my opinion. It's back to the old "he's a captain who leads by example and not by command" debate we have had before.

He certainly isn't the same player as Farrell but that does not mean as captain he can get away with not talking to the troops.

The idea that because he puts in 30 odd tackles a match is somewhow going to motivate players who have let their heads drop is bizarre.

Thankfully we are not in that situation at the moment but we have been this season and as far as I am concerned his captaincly was not up to handling the situation.

I think he is good young player but a poor captain based on what I see. It is easy to captain a successful side but much harder when things are not going well. If things had gone better for us this season I doubt we would be having this debate but as we all know things have been pretty bad and it has IMO exposed a failing in him.

Dave

DaveO posted:
The same applies to Lockers. He puts in 100% effort but if he still won't say boo to a goose as captain then that shows he has a failing on that score.

No, it shows that you don't understand there are different way in which to lead a team. I have played football in teams with people shouting lots and sometimes it's good to get you motivated but sometimes it can be off putting. I've also played with captains that were solid grafters, they said very little but the way they controlled the game in the middle of the pitch and ran around tirelessly for the full game was enough to motivate me to do the same.

It's back to the old "he's a captain who leads by example and not by command" debate we have had before.

The fact that it's been said enough over the years to become a cliche says something.

robjoenz posted:

demt82 posted:
I dont understand some of you people sticking up for O'loughlin, he is NOT a good captain!!! period. its about time some of you woke up and smelled the coffee. And for the record maybe what we need as captain is a hard, aggressive bloke like fletcher, who isnt affraid to speak his mind, not some yes man, shy lad like O'loughlin.

Watch O'Loughlin's manner on the pitch. He doesn't go out there and lose his head. He stays calm and does the job required of him and some.

He keeps the referees on side by not moaning at them, like the opposite of what Lee Briers does, for example. You often see him going up to the referee and having a quiet word.

His work rate is immense, he is top tackler week in week out for us. Not only does he tackle well but he tackles intelligently. Count how long he takes to get up each time the tackle is completed, its more or less the same time throughout the game, he knows exactly how long he has got to get up without slowing the attacking side too much. Occasionally he does give away a penalty but he's spot on most of the time.

It's not just his defence either, count how many carries he has each game, he'd be up there near the top too.

O'Loughlin isn't out there shouting and ranting at the rest of the team, he isn't Farrell like most people want him to be. He's a different player, but if every other player in the Wigan team looked at how O'Loughlin plays it should inspire them to put in 100% effort, as he does.

Yeah he goes out there to lose an opponents head and half the time another player has to pull him off the tackle.

But i think it's only a matter of time and they will see out the season and then Barrett will take that mantle off him and Lockers can play his own game.

robjoenz posted:

DaveO posted:
The same applies to Lockers. He puts in 100% effort but if he still won't say boo to a goose as captain then that shows he has a failing on that score.

No, it shows that you don't understand there are different way in which to lead a team.

All it shows is that you seem to think if plan A does not work (leading by example) that you would stick you head in the sand and hope things come good by stickin to plan A.

Unless you are blind you will have seen the team stood about under the sticks on many occaisions having conceded a try this season, heads down crying out for some direction.

You will have also seen Lockers stood to one side saying nothing leaving to the likes of Orr to try and motivste the team.

You know I am not making this up as it is a fact so why perist with the cliche you mention I don't know.

I have played football in teams with people shouting lots and sometimes it's good to get you motivated but sometimes it can be off putting. I've also played with captains that were solid grafters, they said very little but the way they controlled the game in the middle of the pitch and ran around tirelessly for the full game was enough to motivate me to do the same.

Good for you but given Lockers doing 30 tackles a match clearly wasn't motivating the team or organising it properly I just don't think you have an argument.

Radlinski was critisised as not a good captain and rightly so. There is a player who's sets the best example as a player I have ever seen yet as a captain he failed, so clearly setting an example is not all there is too it otherwise Radlinski would have been a shoe in for not only Wigan captain but GB captain also.

Dave

ian.birchall posted:

Fraggle posted:
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I wonder what Mr O'Laughlin senior thinks about his son apparently only getting recognition because he is Faz's brother-in-law...? I've only seen his play on video, but he looked a pretty useful player in his day himself.

Now you are showing your (lack of) age Fraggle.

Not lack of age particularly, just I'm a bit of a late starter in terms of discovering this great game. There's not much rugby league where I'm originally from...

JJ posted:
When is Brian going to sell Sean O'Loughlin he's a waist of space. 25 min into the game and he has made 5 mistakes. GET RID.

Brian won't sell him because he's not bloody stupid!