Our problems

[ChrisA]

All our issues stem from the fact that we are clueless at times with ball in hand. We are trying to force the pass all the time, we rely on offloads to create any confusion, we have no dummy runners and players are too busy hitting the man and not the gap.

We have no pace at all in the centres, and as a result Calderwood is looking like a very average player. We've seen what he can do if he is given space, and we are not giving him that.

Our defence is fine for the most part, we are just giving up too much ball, and we are making it easy for teams to attack us, everyone will leak points if they cough the ball up as much as we did yesterday.

Saints scored a few good tries yesterday, but overall, I think we gave them the game on a plate with all the dropped ball, and poor discipline, we piggy backed down the field on so many occasions I lost count.

Yesterday was a wake up call, we need another prop. It's OK having O'carrol or Hill or Prescott as the fourth, but we can't have them as 3rd and 4th props, we need someone to come on and replace Feka and do a good job like Logan did last year.

We need new centres, they don't fear anybody at all, and from that it makes our wingers easy to mark out of the game.

Overall though, we are in much better shape than we were this time last year, and we can't forget that. It may take another seasons recruitment before we really see a team capable of challenging for honours.

[phibes]

The lack of service to Calderwood is a disgrace. Bailey might as well be in the second row because he doesn't even seem to think about offloading to his winger.

The difference in pace between our centre line and their's was there for all to see yesterday.

The prop situation didn't look good at the beginning of the season. By now, it's obvious that Feka can only play for 10min at a time, and that Fielden's indifferent form is going to continue (if he couldn't raise his performance yesterday, I do wonder when he will start). I rate some of our younger props, but none of them can plug the gap left by Logan.

[100% Warrior]

Maybe a line up such as this may rectify the problems at prop and centre.

1. Withers or Ashton
2. Calderwood
3. Goulding
4. Vaealiki
5. Richards
6. Barrett
7. Leuluai
8. Fielden
9. Higham
10. Feka
11. Hock
12. Bailey
13. O'Loughlin

14. Ashton or Withers
15. Hansen
16. Fletcher (use as replacement prop)
17. O'Carroll

OK, it may not be perfect but we can't sign anyone until we offload any deadwood.

We must use more of the kicking game where we drift a kick in behind the opposition defence and allow Calderwood to chase it.

That tactic worked yesterday as we obtained another set of 6 after trapping the defender behind the tryline. Using that tactic we may pick up some tries and if not we'd obtain better field position.

[chrisJJ]

100% Warrior posted:
Maybe a line up such as this may rectify the problems at prop and centre.

1. Withers or Ashton
2. Calderwood
3. Goulding
4. Vaealiki
5. Richards
6. Barrett
7. Leuluai
8. Fielden
9. Higham
10. Feka
11. Hock
12. Bailey
13. O'Loughlin

14. Ashton or Withers
15. Hansen
16. Fletcher (use as replacement prop)
17. O'Carroll

Hansen isn't ready yet and his form isn't the best.

Just a quater of the way through the season and everyone's thinking who can we sign to get u out?

Get us out of what? one loss does not mean relegation there is a long way to go yet.

If Ashton was given the no.1 then he should be starting each game. we bought withers as a centre come back up fullback, there isn't an injury problem with asthon so why do we need to bring withers in to the no.1 shirt?

I wouldn't swap bailey to second row because i think there's more to come of him. In the first few games he tried the off-load alot and it hardly ever worked now that he has been doing the dirty stuff more and more confidence will be being installed into the man that is when the flash Jamie Lyon like play should be done, not on a snowy night in Wigan. Bailey's defence has also been great another reason why we need him at centre, DV and Goulding can't supply all the Defence on thier own.

Goulding isn't ready for first team, he's still learning and at the moment seems to be out for himself (eg. his try at widnes, give it to the winger and rub out any doubt.)

Stick with the same team and watch them evolve. we've got one of the best defensive records in the country and people are pressing the panic alarm.

role on next week and get behind the lads :eusa2: :eusa2: :eusa2: :eusa2: :eusa2:

[wiganstripleL]

our problems???up till yesterday we were unbeaten in four games saints yesterday were by far the better team and deserved the win!apart from withers and prescot/o'carroll it was the same team that went to hull and won!i wouldnt start paniking just yet!!we just didnt perform yesterday

[cpwigan]

Thank God for Wiganstripel

You cannot go from where we where last season to the top of SL in one season. It is going to take time, particularly given we are still making recruitment mistakes.

[Knutsford pie man]

Their squad has mostly been together for years and they have the confidence to move the ball and more importantly unlike us they always believe the ball is going to be unloaded no matter how unlikely it looks so they are always ready to pounce.

We always seem surprised when the ball gets released and therefore waste a few seconds trying to think what to do.

We are getting better each game and I think we'll learn some good lessons out of this game.

Saints ball skills were superb and they deserved the win but we are getting there. As posts said before the match, this game came 3 games too early.

Only thing I would say is we need Ashtons pace on from the start not Withers.

[ian.birchall]

100% Warrior posted:
Maybe a line up such as this may rectify the problems at prop and centre.

1. Withers or Ashton
2. Calderwood
3. Goulding
4. Vaealiki
5. Richards
6. Barrett
7. Leuluai
8. Fielden
9. Higham
10. Feka
11. Hock
12. Bailey
13. O'Loughlin

14. Ashton or Withers
15. Hansen
16. Fletcher (use as replacement prop)
17. O'Carroll

OK, it may not be perfect but we can't sign anyone until we offload any deadwood.

My idea completely except I would play with Ashton with Withers on the bench in case any of our backs need a spell. I was going to use Fletcher as a replacement prop, he still knows what needs to be done but in the second row he is just not fast enough to do it, Bailey too slow for the centres, stick him in the second row but not sure about Goulding, I know Colborn is really a winger but he is big and fast, lets try him at centre for a few matches before another talent goes to waste.
Did anyone else notice that Kevin Brown got a hat trick against Salford yesterday?

[DaveO]

chrisJJ posted:
I wouldn't swap bailey to second row because i think there's more to come of him. In the first few games he tried the off-load alot and it hardly ever worked now that he has been doing the dirty stuff more and more confidence will be being installed into the man that is when the flash Jamie Lyon like play should be done, not on a snowy night in Wigan. Bailey's defence has also been great another reason why we need him at centre, DV and Goulding can't supply all the Defence on thier own.

Bailey's problem is he lacks the pace for a centre and that can't be rectified no matter how much confidence he gains.

DV does not have any pace either so with these two as centres our 3/4 attack is a distant second best to Saints and this was shown up cleary for all to see.

Despite DV's improvement this season our centres are not good enough as there is no substitute for pace. It is therefore after 8 games in it is starting to look like to me like the signing of Baily as a centre was another recruitment mistake.

So for me our problems in the playing department are at least the lack of a third prop like Logan and two centres with no pace. The fact one of them is a new recruit this season just makes it even more depressing.

You can add to the above that Millard is useless but I just take that as a given everyone accepts now.

Stick with the same team and watch them evolve. we've got one of the best defensive records in the country and people are pressing the panic alarm.

We will have to stick with the same team but they aren't going to evolve into a side capable of matching Saints given such fundamental problems as a pair of centres with no pace and a lightweight pack.

Dave