Wigan's attempts to sign players

[DaveO]

It seems to me there is a trend developing in the way Wigan are attempting (and failing) to sign players.

At the moment as we have done every season we pay up to the maximum of the salary cap so there is no room to bring a player in unless one or more players leave.

What seems to have happened recently is we have offered one or more players either in exchange or to other clubs to free up salary cap space.

Examples are Micky Higham to get Newton last season, one or more of our forwards to sign Moore from Wakefield, not sure who but I presume Smith and possibly others to sign Bird and now rumoured to be Mathers and Goulding to sign Gleeson.

Each time we do this the names of the players being offered in exchange always leak out to the press and it seems that is the first they hear of it and this IMO just undermines the players who aren't exactly brimming with confidence as it is.

Why IL and BN think a club would want to take the likes of Mathers in a deal just so we can free up the necessary salary cap to get a player like Gleeson on board I have no idea. It is IMO unrealistic to expect clubs to take what IL and BN clearly consider inferior players so we can take one of theirs to strengthen our squad while making theirs weaker!

So given our lack of space under the salary cap means we need to offload players and the fact each time we have tried to offload players it has failed, wouldn't you think it was about time both IL and BN realised this is not going to work? When it does fail all we end up with is one or more players who know they are not rated by the current coach (and possibly chairman as well).

I just don't think doing this is the right way to go about strengthening the squad. The squad are all contracted to Wigan for the duration of their deals and when they come off contract then the club can decide how it wants to strengthen the squad. 2010 has been mentioned as a watershed year in terms of contracts so in the meantime Nobby just needs to start getting the best out of what he has got instead of treating them like a bunch of cattle to auctioned off when something better comes along.

It seems to me we have over recent months tried to swap players from the forwards, the half backs and the backs for players Noble wants instead. Half the players in the squad must wonder if they are valued members of the team.

We have got ourselves into this position because the club has IMO been too quick to give deals to some players. Phelps and Roberts spring to mind. Due to them having deals here our quota is full and they are hard to offload anyway as other clubs quotas are also full. So instead we try and offload Goulding.

I had thought there was a plan to the way recruitment was being done at Wigan but it seems to me driven by events not plans. When a player becomes available we start looking to offload players and with Roberts we signed him when we didn't expect to so he took up a quota spot.

Seems completely disorganised to me compared to, dare I say it, the way Mo went about it.

Dave

[MrDave]

2010 has been mentioned as a watershed year in terms of contracts so in the meantime Nobby just needs to start getting the best out of what he has got instead of treating them like a bunch of cattle to auctioned off when something better comes along.

Something Wakefield, Huddersfield and Castleford are doing particularly well. Not disrespect to those side but most of their players are average at best but the team gets 100% out of ever one.

A lot of the signing Noble has brought in haven't worked and that has led to the situation now where after 3 years he is still trying to find the right players for his squad. Noble seems to need specific types of players where other coach will work with what they have. Some of the signing under Noble (mainly with Lenegan) that haven't really worked out:
- Micheal Withers
- Shane Millard
- Danny Hill
- Mark Flanagan?
- Andy Coley
- Richie Mathers
- Cameron Phelps
- Tim Smith

We have got ourselves into this position because the club has IMO been too quick to give deals to some players. Phelps and Roberts spring to mind. Due to them having deals here our quota is full and they are hard to offload anyway as other clubs quotas are also full. So instead we try and offload Goulding.

Unfortunately the club is in the state now were quick deals are the only way players will come to the club. Wigan don't attract big names anymore, even the Aussies are realising that Wigan isn't the club it used to be. Leeds and St Helens lead with way with prestige while Warrington seem to be the big spenders these days.

There is nothing wrong with quick deals if you can get the player you want but Wigan bring in these players and Noble has no idea what to do with them. Martin Gleeson is unsettled at Warrington which is only reason Wigan are trying to sign him.

If I was going to start blaming people then the finger would be pointed at Lenegan. He has two options:

1) Spend time scouting players who will work with well with Noble's system. The benefit is those players should fit right in but the negative is there are probably only a few players who meet the criteria and those players are probably all contracted.

2) Get a coach who can get the best out of what he is given. Someone who would probably like the idea of getting a few new players in and putting them to good use.

Lenegans middle ground at the moment doesn't work.

[ancientnloyal]

Maurice Lindsay did his upmost best to get the player he wanted. It took him a while but we eventually got the likes of Miles here. His work rate for Wigan in the earlier days was second to none he always had a drive and desire to get the best.

It seems with Lenegan an aussie club or player says 'No' and then goes "oh, ok, sorry for troubling you..." thats the kind of attitude i am seeing. It wont be long, if not already, that we can sign quality superstar players purely because of the Wigan brand. Lenegan's focus is money, he doesnt want to spend any of his, he wants to make wigan self-profitable like he mentions in the fans forum... to be able to make their own profit without the need for him to bankroll the club Whelan style.

Uncle Mo was opposite. He saw that if we sign the best the attendances would pay off bank debts to purchase players... Offiah, Hanley, even Gill in the early days from rochdale. Superstars attract crowds, crowds generate money. I know the role of a supporter watching a game may have changed in 2 decades but to me something at board level is missing... no hunger or drive... or a severe passionate lack of it to actively get a top notch player.

[weststand-rich]

Why IL and BN think a club would want to take the likes of Mathers in a deal just so we can free up the necessary salary cap to get a player like Gleeson on board I have no idea. It is IMO unrealistic to expect clubs to take what IL and BN clearly consider inferior players so we can take one of theirs to strengthen our squad while making theirs weaker!

If there is indeed any truth to this rumour then it may not be quite as unrealistic as you think.

Firstly, if Reardon goes down for his aggravated assault resulting from his domestic turbulence, Warrington are officially with a first choice full back. Contrary to what many people would say, Mathers is a full back and could fill that role.

Secondly I'm cynical enough to take salary cap numbers and transfer fee's with a very liberal pinch of salt.

Thirdly, Smith has Gleeson labelled as a p***pot and may not be quite as keen as you think to keep him

[DaveO]

Why IL and BN think a club would want to take the likes of Mathers in a deal just so we can free up the necessary salary cap to get a player like Gleeson on board I have no idea. It is IMO unrealistic to expect clubs to take what IL and BN clearly consider inferior players so we can take one of theirs to strengthen our squad while making theirs weaker!

If there is indeed any truth to this rumour then it may not be quite as unrealistic as you think.

Firstly, if Reardon goes down for his aggravated assault resulting from his domestic turbulence, Warrington are officially with a first choice full back. Contrary to what many people would say, Mathers is a full back and could fill that role.

On paper only given his form at Wigan. Just because he has no. 1 on his back does not mean he is good enough. There is no way any coach will come trying to temp Mathers away from Wigan if they lost their 1st choice full back so I fail to see why the offer of a swap deal would appeal.

Secondly I'm cynical enough to take salary cap numbers and transfer fee's with a very liberal pinch of salt.

I am not sure what you mean by that.

Thirdly, Smith has Gleeson labelled as a p***pot and may not be quite as keen as you think to keep him

He may not but I still don't see why he would want Mathers. In any case the point of my post wasn't about what Tony Smith wants but the way Wigan have gone about trying to sign players recently.

Dave

[GeoffN]

Maurice Lindsay did his upmost best to get the player he wanted. It took him a while but we eventually got the likes of Miles here. His work rate for Wigan in the earlier days was second to none he always had a drive and desire to get the best.

It seems with Lenegan an aussie club or player says 'No' and then goes "oh, ok, sorry for troubling you..." thats the kind of attitude i am seeing. It wont be long, if not already, that we can sign quality superstar players purely because of the Wigan brand. Lenegan's focus is money, he doesnt want to spend any of his, he wants to make wigan self-profitable like he mentions in the fans forum... to be able to make their own profit without the need for him to bankroll the club Whelan style.

Uncle Mo was opposite. He saw that if we sign the best the attendances would pay off bank debts to purchase players...

Which ultimately cost us Central Park.

[Glynola]

Seems completely disorganised to me compared to, dare I say it, the way Mo went about it.

Dave

Which cost us many deducted league points!

With regards to Goulding it does say in the WEP article that the club are reluctant to let him go permanently, and may be looking at a loan option.

[DaveO]

Seems completely disorganised to me compared to, dare I say it, the way Mo went about it.

Dave

Which cost us many deducted league points!

When most people when they found out the facts (deferred wages) they agreed he was hard done by given deferring wages is allowed in Australia. In his last salary cap breach the club didn't actually pay out more than the salary cap but the RFL went for the subjective "spirit of the cap" nonsense. Few on here thought he was in the wrong.

With regards to Goulding it does say in the WEP article that the club are reluctant to let him go permanently, and may be looking at a loan option.

Well the club must free up salary cap space to sign Gleeson so it's either a loan or a permanent deal. If the club can loan him to Wire I don't see what Wire gain. All they are doing is giving us (part of) the means to pay Gleesons wages as they pay Goulding's wages for a year.

If Goulding went elsewhere then Wire would presumable want cash not players and IL does not have a good record on that front.

Dave

[DaveO]

Maurice Lindsay did his upmost best to get the player he wanted. It took him a while but we eventually got the likes of Miles here. His work rate for Wigan in the earlier days was second to none he always had a drive and desire to get the best.

It seems with Lenegan an aussie club or player says 'No' and then goes "oh, ok, sorry for troubling you..." thats the kind of attitude i am seeing. It wont be long, if not already, that we can sign quality superstar players purely because of the Wigan brand. Lenegan's focus is money, he doesnt want to spend any of his, he wants to make wigan self-profitable like he mentions in the fans forum... to be able to make their own profit without the need for him to bankroll the club Whelan style.

Uncle Mo was opposite. He saw that if we sign the best the attendances would pay off bank debts to purchase players...

Which ultimately cost us Central Park.

You are not seriously trying to suggest the wage bill and specifically wages agreed by Mo alone were/was the only reason we lost CP are you?

Dave

[GeoffN]

You are not seriously trying to suggest the wage bill and specifically wages agreed by Mo alone were/was the only reason we lost CP are you?

Dave

Not really, as he'd gone by then, but he set in place the strategy which Robinson & Rathbone continued, essentially spending money based on winning trophies - so when our cup run in particular ended we had to offload all our best players simply to enable temporary survival. After that, all we had left to cover the debt (other than taking up Whelan's offer to develop CP) was to sell the ground.