having read that some of you think Betts should go, is it really him to blame, he is Wigan through and through as far as I am concerned.Is it his fault that we have lost again!!
Sean Briscoe, Luke Roblinson, David Hodson, Craig Smith, Mark Smith, Terry O'Connor, Mick Cassidy,Adrienne Lam, Paul Johnson, etc etc and are about to loose Andy Farrell not to mention the rumour about Carney going.
If letting these players go was not his decision then sack the Man who's decision it was.
I am sick of the Coach always being blamed for how the player perform on the night once they are out there is it not up to them to produce the goods. And with what we have we are producing the only goods we can with no one to take the place of O'Connor, Cassidy and Smith. Seuseu I would say see see you to him.Stop blaming the coach and start blaming the men who make the decisions, like let's get rid of Sean Briscoe (now Hull's no1 player) and Luke Robinson to make room for YOUNGER PLAYER??
who's fault is it really?
who's fault is it really?
thanks everyone for your advice on parking will do what you said and park round the back not worth the risk as you say.
Re: who's fault is it really?
I have read the post regarding whos fault it is that at the moment we seem to be doing so dire. Whislt i dont think its Betts fault i also dont think its the managements fault either. The coach is being blamed because A coach should make the best of the sitution there in and take advantage of what the team has, (i personally believe wigan arent using the wings enough.) regardless of which players are young player of the year etc some people believe dennis isnt doing this. Whislt i know that the players make all the difference we cant sit back and say oh if only we had such abody and if only he wasnt let go.....They have and there not much we have fans can do about this, this is the managements area and i'm sure due to contary believe that they don't want Wigan to do badly as this is business to them. I know wigan seem to be having a tough start to the season but management shouldnt affect our game,I think we need to stop moaning about whos gone and concentrate on whos here and start winning a few games instead :conf:
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we_need_a_coach
- Posts: 659
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Re: who's fault is it real...
:conf: What do you mean, concentrate on the players who are here ? The whole point is that our current players ar'nt good enough, we are to light in the pack, and are tactically hopeless, Betts, Mo both know they have to go to help arrest the slide, then the new management team will need 2 years to put together a group of players who can achieve something, it's going to be a very, very long summer, Lets just hope DW still has the time and the will to organise us at board level, if the football get promoted (God forbid) and continues to back us, otherwise we could very quickly become another Castleford ! 
Re: who's fault is it really?
I think the current dire state of the team is exposing Betts lack of real coaching ability.h's wife posted:
having read that some of you think Betts should go, is it really him to blame, he is Wigan through and through as far as I am concerned.Is it his fault that we have lost again!!
His comments about petulant players is not one I expect from a coach on top of a bad situation but those of someone pretty desperate.
I don't think he knows how to coach the side out of the current crisis.
How we got to this stage lies at the door of ML IMO. For a start he appointed Betts (despite no official announcment) even though his coaching credentials are non-existent.
That wasn't such a big deal when you had players like Farrell, Lam and O'Connor on the pitch. The coaches job wasn't that hard.
Unfortunately for Betts Mo then set about landing him with a side far worse than last seasons.
You mentioned several names who have left the club but I think you are going a bit too far with some. Hodgson, Briscoe, Robinson and Johnson were not that important to the club because those that replaced them are their equal or better.
The ones we are missing are the expereinced players such as O'Connor, C Smith and Cassidy.
I think ML's problem is two fold. First of all he beleived his own propaganda that our youngsters are outstanding and could compete in SL. Well that just isn't true. He has filled the squad of 27 with too many kids who are not ready. We have three back row forwards of SL standard. Hock, Tickle and O'Loughlin. The others although great prospects are not ready yet. Beswick is only 13 stone in weight and so that illustrates how lacking we are in reserves for the back row. Now Hock is out we are very exposed.
His other great mistake was of course letting Farrell go. Again he must have thought we could cope without him and so let his heart rule his head by going on about how Farrell has been here 14 years so we can't stand in his way blah, blah.
It has been shown this weekend we can't cope without him and so poor old Betts who might have expected some salvation in May when Farrell returns is staring down the barrel of a gun probably wondering where the next win is coming from.
The trouble is just because Mo has screwed things up over the squad doesn't mean we can afford to let Betts off coaching responibility.
It might be Mo's fault the squad is in the state its in but it is up to Betts to get the best out of it that he can. I don't think he is qualified for such a difficult job. I don't think Farrar is either for that matter so we have some serious problems.
Personally if Betts gets the boot I would go for Dean Bell in a caretaker role until someone like Anderson can be appointed. Bell has the respect of both the younger and the older players which Betts will lose if he carries on slagging them off in the press and could get them playing as a team which Betts seems incapable of at the moment.
Dave
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we_need_a_coach
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Re: who's fault is it real...
DaveO, yet again I find myself agreeing to what you say 100%, but why don't all the other muppets see it ?We need action now, and I recon we need to let our feelings be heard in Friday.
Re: who's fault is it real...
Cast your minds back to last year just after the Challenge Cup final, the majority of people were calling for Mo to officially give Betts the coaching job and now he's useless and nowhere near good enough for Wigan?!?
Now look how every other SL club built their teams over the off season and look how we weakened ours and it's easy to see why we appear to be on a downward slide. Having said that we're only five games into the season!
Another thing I find hard to understand is how people on a message board spot all the frailties of the Wigan team and decide Betts is a useless coach. I would have thought Dennis, who has played for Wigan all his career, would be able to spot this himself having more experience than all of us on here. Assuming he does spot this I would have thought it would be the players (or lack of players) that we have.
We all know we're far too light in the forwards and the team is lacking confidence and leadership. At the Widnes game there were a couple of people sat behind me that wouldn't stop whinging about Wigan being rubbish, if anyone on here is one of those, tell me, how does that help them regain their confidence?
What we need to do now is get behind the team as a vocal crowd instead of slagging them off and moaning constantly. What Wigan need is to build on the quality players we have got, which to me must start with Mo making some decent signings and getting a squad the size and depth of all other top SL clubs. We need a new prop, another decent centre/winger and maybe a big second rower (at the expense of Hock being released temporarily). The money is now there under the cap the only question is, where do we magic these from?
Now look how every other SL club built their teams over the off season and look how we weakened ours and it's easy to see why we appear to be on a downward slide. Having said that we're only five games into the season!
Another thing I find hard to understand is how people on a message board spot all the frailties of the Wigan team and decide Betts is a useless coach. I would have thought Dennis, who has played for Wigan all his career, would be able to spot this himself having more experience than all of us on here. Assuming he does spot this I would have thought it would be the players (or lack of players) that we have.
We all know we're far too light in the forwards and the team is lacking confidence and leadership. At the Widnes game there were a couple of people sat behind me that wouldn't stop whinging about Wigan being rubbish, if anyone on here is one of those, tell me, how does that help them regain their confidence?
What we need to do now is get behind the team as a vocal crowd instead of slagging them off and moaning constantly. What Wigan need is to build on the quality players we have got, which to me must start with Mo making some decent signings and getting a squad the size and depth of all other top SL clubs. We need a new prop, another decent centre/winger and maybe a big second rower (at the expense of Hock being released temporarily). The money is now there under the cap the only question is, where do we magic these from?
Re: who's fault is it really?
It isnt directly Betts fault, what I mean is this.
If he had been given the coaches job 10 years ago when we had a wordld class team from 1 thought to 17, then his job would have been easy, he had a ready made squad that was practically self coached anyway. But now hes got the job and has inherited a squad of young untested players and players who last season where at the end of their careers. So the problem is that the players we have recruited and the young players who are coming through are not totally upto standard. We are at a point where we need to rebuild this side totally, Betts does not have the experience in coaching and managment to do this. Basically he has got the job at the totally wrong time imo, what we need at the moment is a proven coach who can come in and size up the massive task ahead.
If he had been given the coaches job 10 years ago when we had a wordld class team from 1 thought to 17, then his job would have been easy, he had a ready made squad that was practically self coached anyway. But now hes got the job and has inherited a squad of young untested players and players who last season where at the end of their careers. So the problem is that the players we have recruited and the young players who are coming through are not totally upto standard. We are at a point where we need to rebuild this side totally, Betts does not have the experience in coaching and managment to do this. Basically he has got the job at the totally wrong time imo, what we need at the moment is a proven coach who can come in and size up the massive task ahead.
Re: who's fault is it real...
From what i can gather down in South Wales Anderson is leaving at the latest first week in May. If Wigan offered him a job then hed be up earlier.DaveO posted:I think the current dire state of the team is exposing Betts lack of real coaching ability.h's wife posted:
having read that some of you think Betts should go, is it really him to blame, he is Wigan through and through as far as I am concerned.Is it his fault that we have lost again!!
Just read the post above this one and yes i agree Hanley nis the only other candidate for the job. We need experience coach or at least for someone with a track record to come in and help.
His comments about petulant players is not one I expect from a coach on top of a bad situation but those of someone pretty desperate.
I don't think he knows how to coach the side out of the current crisis.
How we got to this stage lies at the door of ML IMO. For a start he appointed Betts (despite no official announcment) even though his coaching credentials are non-existent.
That wasn't such a big deal when you had players like Farrell, Lam and O'Connor on the pitch. The coaches job wasn't that hard.
Unfortunately for Betts Mo then set about landing him with a side far worse than last seasons.
You mentioned several names who have left the club but I think you are going a bit too far with some. Hodgson, Briscoe, Robinson and Johnson were not that important to the club because those that replaced them are their equal or better.
The ones we are missing are the expereinced players such as O'Connor, C Smith and Cassidy.
I think ML's problem is two fold. First of all he beleived his own propaganda that our youngsters are outstanding and could compete in SL. Well that just isn't true. He has filled the squad of 27 with too many kids who are not ready. We have three back row forwards of SL standard. Hock, Tickle and O'Loughlin. The others although great prospects are not ready yet. Beswick is only 13 stone in weight and so that illustrates how lacking we are in reserves for the back row. Now Hock is out we are very exposed.
His other great mistake was of course letting Farrell go. Again he must have thought we could cope without him and so let his heart rule his head by going on about how Farrell has been here 14 years so we can't stand in his way blah, blah.
It has been shown this weekend we can't cope without him and so poor old Betts who might have expected some salvation in May when Farrell returns is staring down the barrel of a gun probably wondering where the next win is coming from.
The trouble is just because Mo has screwed things up over the squad doesn't mean we can afford to let Betts off coaching responibility.
It might be Mo's fault the squad is in the state its in but it is up to Betts to get the best out of it that he can. I don't think he is qualified for such a difficult job. I don't think Farrar is either for that matter so we have some serious problems.
Personally if Betts gets the boot I would go for Dean Bell in a caretaker role until someone like Anderson can be appointed. Bell has the respect of both the younger and the older players which Betts will lose if he carries on slagging them off in the press and could get them playing as a team which Betts seems incapable of at the moment.
Dave
Ive a hunch if things go wrong on Fri he will be in charge for the Saints match.
Re: who's fault is it real...
Well I certasinly didn't call for his appointment. I am never convinced ex-players automatically make good coaches and I was quite bemused why we appointled Lam as a coach at the club as well. Just what are his coaching qualifications? It is the same with Betts.robjoenz posted:
Cast your minds back to last year just after the Challenge Cup final, the majority of people were calling for Mo to officially give Betts the coaching job and now he's useless and nowhere near good enough for Wigan?!?
ChrisA has it right as regards Betts and I mentioned it as well earliert. It is easy coaching a team full of top players but a lot harder coaching a team like what we have now. Can Betts do that is a legitimate question.
I watched a DVD of the Central Park years my Dad has recenely and Shaun Edwards is interiewed about John Dorahay and he says he was so bad the players just ignored him for the last month and a half of the season and got on with the job going on to win trophies.
I am not saying Betts is as bad as Dorahay but we haven't got the players to organise themselves like Edwards and Co or even help Betts keep the heads of the younger players up. With Farrell we have but he is off.
You also have to question the way Betts is reacting to the pressure and slagging the players off in the press which isn't good enough IMO. He can do it behind closed doors but undermining them in public is not a good idea.
Part of the problem is the Farrell situation. By leaving it until the start of the season to leave he screwed any chance we had of sorting things out properly. Both he and Mo are to blame for that but it still doesn't get Betts off the hook with the current squad.Now look how every other SL club built their teams over the off season and look how we weakened ours and it's easy to see why we appear to be on a downward slide. Having said that we're only five games into the season!
How about picking Wilde as a centre when we were lightweight in the sencond row? He could have played Aspwinall at centre and brought in a young lad on the wing but instead lets the pack get flattened. He seems bereft of ideas on tactics and player selection.Another thing I find hard to understand is how people on a message board spot all the frailties of the Wigan team and decide Betts is a useless coach. I would have thought Dennis, who has played for Wigan all his career, would be able to spot this himself having more experience than all of us on here. Assuming he does spot this I would have thought it would be the players (or lack of players) that we have.
I certainly won't be slagging them off on Friday but I think we can question Betts (and Mo's) off field leadership legitimatley.What we need to do now is get behind the team as a vocal crowd instead of slagging them off and moaning constantly.
Dave
Re: who's fault is it real...
Maybe i am MR optomistic, but here are some facts, we have lost 3 games this year, one against a high in confidence wakefield side by 2 points another against a bradford team who for 70 minutes we ran them all over the park, all we needed was a level head out there and we would have won that game in convincing fashion. London on saturday night was a really bad performance, but we dont seem to like playing at griffin park as last year we lost there!
so in effect we have played really badly in one game, and the rest we played quite well in!!
dennis moran and danny orr were starting to do something and work well together and with danny injured and the game after we play badly, these partnerships take time to work! Danny gets through an immense amount of takling and i felt we missed him in the middle on saturday as our defense was awful.
Its all to easy to call for peoples heads in this situation, but there is no rush, were only five games into a very long season.
Stability creats success, not rash decisions in the face of a few drawbacks! just look at bradford they nearly lost there opening three matches and look at them go!! A few weeks in rugby is a long time!! Lets just calm down and if were still in this situation in a couple of months time! then it might be the time for heads to roll! but not so early on!!
What annoys me the most is thatdenis has done so much for the club both past and present and people are so quick to get rid of him! Just give the lad a chance before you burn him at the stake! The lad loves the club just as much as anyone on here!! the least he deserves is a chance!! So get of his back and lets get behing this great team of ours!!
so in effect we have played really badly in one game, and the rest we played quite well in!!
dennis moran and danny orr were starting to do something and work well together and with danny injured and the game after we play badly, these partnerships take time to work! Danny gets through an immense amount of takling and i felt we missed him in the middle on saturday as our defense was awful.
Its all to easy to call for peoples heads in this situation, but there is no rush, were only five games into a very long season.
Stability creats success, not rash decisions in the face of a few drawbacks! just look at bradford they nearly lost there opening three matches and look at them go!! A few weeks in rugby is a long time!! Lets just calm down and if were still in this situation in a couple of months time! then it might be the time for heads to roll! but not so early on!!
What annoys me the most is thatdenis has done so much for the club both past and present and people are so quick to get rid of him! Just give the lad a chance before you burn him at the stake! The lad loves the club just as much as anyone on here!! the least he deserves is a chance!! So get of his back and lets get behing this great team of ours!!