Are our younger fans out of control?

[Dubs]

Agree 100% with the above. A more appropriate title for this post should probably be "Are the parents of match-going children today responsible?". It's depressing how society in general and common decency seems to have decayed, particularly over the last decade. It's not so much a rugby league problem - or any sport for that matter - more a problem of society as a whole.

[ancientnloyal]

What if the parents happen to be normal working people? young people amongst friends change their behaviour so how can that be controlled if it is deemed to be unruly and distressing for others?

I agree with the previous two posts, society has changed and that question is a legitimate one from Dubs. I think there are two or three idylls: older/middle aged and youth that will clash at some point.

[DaveO]

Dave & Dawn, if you read my post again it doesnt state directly that I was mentioning rlfans, from the quote DaveO mentioned. Read above that and you will see I said 'rlfans, here, other... (ie myspace, facebook etc...)

Well when you wrote "Ive seen people cause trouble at matches in the past, knowing they are known to eachother via, eg, rlfans. Group together online, create rules etc.. "

Read to me as if you are suggesting people who know to each other via rlfans are prime suspects for grouping together there to organise a fight.

If that is not what you meant fair enough but it certainly read that way.

Dave

[lucky 13]

I post on here quite a bit and occasionally on RLFANS I read it most days like I do this site can't see much difference , over the last few months the site is better ok it may appear to have a clique but so can this one .
We all follow the same club thankfully we have a couple of decent forums , you will get differences of opinions and the odd idiot( :eusa12: ) but over all most people on both sites seem .... r reet

[ancientnloyal]

I have never seen anyone from that site involved in a fight or causing distress to others at matches, I only see some in the stands... and I used 'rlfans' as an example. Catalans last year there were three drunks causing trouble in the stand and whilst travelling so much so a a woman and her daughter felt scared. When they were sober beforehand I asked how they'd arranged their trip (as you do, first time to catalans) they mentioned people/friends online with whom they met there. I dont know what site they used but it seemed to know several people 'in the 2nd person' (know of, online informally). It seemed apparent they had not much interest in rugby at all

The only people off rlfans that I recognise have been tipsy at matches and a bit loud... the same as people off here (bear ) but no trouble to me.

[DaveO]

Anyhow back on topic. I believe there is no doubt that all forms of media exacerbate the feelings of the general public. Wigan were (hate typing that) successful and in Britain that breeds resentment.

For what it is worth I believe that RLfans forum as a collective fuels that hatred / resentment. It gives a platform to individuals who would normally not have one to put forward lies and promote hatred.

No it doesn't. Any individual doing do would be banned. I am assuming you mean serious stuff here not fans of other clubs havng a pop at Mo or DW as they used to for example. Can you give me an example of what you mean because hatred is a strong word? People just get banned for calling other fans "scum" for example but they won't get banned for labelling Wigan as "cheats" re the salary cap.

It is not alone. The readers letters of RL publications does the same and they are paid professionals (cheap lazy journalism), Radio Phones ins are irresponsible and worst of all, those involved in the game are guilty of worse. Neil Holding at Saints, comments during the Wire match over the PA system, the Castleford PA encouraging their fans to abuse the Wigan U18s.

So what do we do? Ban rlfans, ban radio phone ins and remove letters pages from the press?

I think you are over stating the case regarding rlfans or any other moderated forum. The Cas PA's actions were on a different level to anything on rlfans. Anyone who over steps the mark gets banned pretty quickly.

When a notion is popularised, accepted then it becomes acceptable and grows. Hooliganism grew because it became trendy.

What we can see happening at the moment is that by simply chanting / singing a song you stir an incredibly OTT response from rival supporters. That response is aggression and hate.

Oddly the strangest response I ever had was at Watersheddings when we lost in the cup. An Oldham fan pulled his penis out at the end of the match and began to motion ejaculation. I kid you not.

My own personal opinion is that RLfans and similar networks should disperse and become separate entities. The so called community notion does not exist. Nice ideal. It has failed.

I am not sure how you can seriously link rlfans and similar netwroks to the rest of the points you make. Your Oldham example pre-dates it for a start so what caused that reaction? rlfans might have its faults with its cliques and its threads may wander off topic incredibly quickly with "in" jokes but to suggest it fuels hatred to the degree you do above is wide of the mark IMO. It is just not that influential and there are simply not enough nutters posting hate filled drivel for it to be so.

Before rlfans there was Usenet (and in many ways rlfans was born from several active Usenet posters setting it up) and Usenet was and remains totally unmoderated.

If people want to post hate filled messages there are far easier places for them to do it than rlfans.

Dave

[cpwigan]

Dave, the Oldham example was an anecdote

I am going to throw a suggestion at you which defies what people have been encouraged to believe. Education has been used as a political football. Successive Governments have been driven by their desire to produce figures to enhance their re-election. The Key policies have been educate children as young as possible and to teach academic requirement/test as young as possible. INCREASINGLY, the evidence is that such a policy is counter productive. Countries with much higher standards enter children into education later that we do. Here is my view. A child is strongly influenced by his/her parents in their first years. PARENTS have virtually complete control over what that child learns / experiences. As soon as you Move your child into nurseries/schools Parents lose control. Teachers but more importantly your childs peers now have a huge influence upon how your child develops. In many cases that can be NEGATIVE. Increasingly so. Some of the key development years are being exposed to 'society'

What value is placed upon parenting? Is parenting valued? Are parents driven to leave their children in the care of others? with children they know little about? Are parents forced to work?

Have the key group of family / community been supported? Do politicians promote responsibility in the true sense of the word? or are we fostering a 'society' where it has become ever man for himself? a struggle for your little patch? a treadmill of people with material good but far less contentment?

[cpwigan]

Dave,

This site works because we all share a common interest that bonds us. The lack of people who do not share that interest makes it a 'safe' place.

When the net works well, it works along those lines. Families communicating across continents, distant friends, colleagues and so on.

Where the net breaks down is when you open it up and allow a free for all. At its worst the net is used for harming others, for criminal activities. On the negative side you have a plethora of so called community sites that end up in people inciting others to accept their views/hate individuals/groups.

RLfans is a grain of sand compared to the irresponsibility of the media. People's views / behaviour are driven by the media and we know the media is largely negative. These so called professionals throw boulders into the water day after day.

Apologies if this sounds melodramatic/heavy but we do need as a nation to take a good look at ourselves and ask what type of country do we want. I see very few politicians willing to do so on our behalf.

[cpwigan]

Oh and I am putting my soap box away and going to sleep

[Dubs]

That's quite a thought provoking post!! Without breaking it down, I think you've definitely hit on something there pal. There are some fundamental principles which the current government have monumentally cocked-up and have a lot to answer for IMO.

Going slightly off-topic here yes, but in the context of rugby league in the modern society it's something which needs to be debated!!

EDIT: that was in reply to your first post...