Are our younger fans out of control?

[DaveO]

Dave, the Oldham example was an anecdote

I am going to throw a suggestion at you which defies what people have been encouraged to believe. Education has been used as a political football. Successive Governments have been driven by their desire to produce figures to enhance their re-election. The Key policies have been educate children as young as possible and to teach academic requirement/test as young as possible. INCREASINGLY, the evidence is that such a policy is counter productive. Countries with much higher standards enter children into education later that we do. Here is my view. A child is strongly influenced by his/her parents in their first years. PARENTS have virtually complete control over what that child learns / experiences. As soon as you Move your child into nurseries/schools Parents lose control. Teachers but more importantly your childs peers now have a huge influence upon how your child develops. In many cases that can be NEGATIVE. Increasingly so. Some of the key development years are being exposed to 'society'

Kids don't go to school any earlier now than they did when I was a child. Nursery education is not compulsory. If you are arguing we have always and still do send our kids to school too soon I will not disagree but given there is no difference now than when I was a kid in terms of age of entering school so I am not sure what your point is.

I think there is an argument we get too academic too soon in schools (SAT's and so on) and I know they are even suggesting more formal nursery education but in terms of when we send kids to school it has not changed for decades and I was under the impression you thought the topic under discussion was a recent development.

What value is placed upon parenting? Is parenting valued? Are parents driven to leave their children in the care of others? with children they know little about? Are parents forced to work?

Yes but the age of entry to infant school is still the same. While I don't agree with handing the kids to child minders at pre-school age I am not entirely sure what if any influence having this done to a kid in those very young years will have with respect to behaviour in later life.

It is IMO what happens to them when they become more aware of the world around them that shapes them. That is well into primary school years.

Have the key group of family / community been supported? Do politicians promote responsibility in the true sense of the word? or are we fostering a 'society' where it has become ever man for himself? a struggle for your little patch? a treadmill of people with material good but far less contentment?

Did they ever? When was the Golden Age?

Dave

[DaveO]

Dave,

This site works because we all share a common interest that bonds us. The lack of people who do not share that interest makes it a 'safe' place.

I know and it is a great bolt hole for that reason.

Where the net breaks down is when you open it up and allow a free for all.

That is to much of a generalisation with respect to RL. There is a free for all here also. Look at threads on Lockers.

At its worst the net is used for harming others, for criminal activities. On the negative side you have a plethora of so called community sites that end up in people inciting others to accept their views/hate individuals/groups.

But that does not apply to this site or rlfans. Just because rlfans is a kind of community site doesn't mean by definition it is bad. It has its faults but you continue to post on it anyway. Most users here do I think.

RLfans is a grain of sand compared to the irresponsibility of the media. People's views / behaviour are driven by the media and we know the media is largely negative. These so called professionals throw boulders into the water day after day.

I think there is a distinct tendency in recent years to exaggerate many things. It was a bit windy today but it sounded like a natural disaster if you believed the media.

So I am quite sure with RL the media will exaggerate things as well. Like Eddie saying Mathers would get an 8 match ban and over egging it. But that is far less serious than making people think there is a murderer around every corner if that is the kind of thing you are referring to. Lets keep things in perspective.

Apologies if this sounds melodramatic/heavy but we do need as a nation to take a good look at ourselves and ask what type of country do we want. I see very few politicians willing to do so on our behalf.

Well I know what sort of country I want. What do you suggest I do about it?

Dave

[waterside glens]

we are now in an era of american style politics where substance counts for little. How many times did we hear Blair babble on when ask for a simple yes/no answer. We need to stop the freebee state the governments have created over the years and to stop sending our money to polish kids who have and probably will never set foot in britain.People respect things more when they earn it not when it's handed to them

[Bear]

Yes A+L I might turn up a bit tipsy at some games, although its under age, i wont go and spoil the game for any one else because thats unfair and like you said dont cause any trouble. Same with all our lads, if we have a drink we know how to behave and know were the "Line" is. Therefor we wont cross it. I stand with men at away games and am always up for a laugh with them. Those are the guys that one day will be our lot. Thats how we want to be known, as some well behaved, bantering fun lads, not some 30 odd year old "KID". Not all of us wear shirts because we simply cant afford them as we spend our money going to the games.
My dad used to go to the rugby all the time and was a big fan of Liverpool, my mum was also a warriors fan, they know what its like at games. They will tell me to behave myself i know now that its not worth getting banned for life for a pointlessly hitting someone for singing. So on that basis i think ive had a good up bringing and so have the lads. If they are any trouble i do try to calm them down or say its not worth it.

We would much rather wake up the day after and say "Ohh that was a cracking laugh last night" than wake up in a hospital saying with a black eye "Weres Kris-Roy, weres Physcho" and the nurse replying " Theyve been seriously injured."

[- psycho -]

spot on big bear, but i doubt you'll hear that because kris and psycho aint goin' hospital! none of us are. we stick together as a group. we behave as a group. the odd n*b tends to dance on the line, where as like you said we know where it is and the only time its crossed is when we score tries. the ones that muck around, simple, they dont appear again.

youngsters are the fans of the future, and i must say i reckon our youngsters are ebtter behaved than alot of other fans. now hopefully they'll grow up in time, if not, they'll be banned as it isnt difficult to see at the moment, the difference between a true young supporter, and a yob that got kicked out of last orders.

[consigliere]

I can't say I have had the time to wade through all this thread but...
On the whole nothing much has changed really.
You will always get the few idiots who spoil it for the everyone else. But all too often these days small isolated incidents are blown all out of proportion.
How many incidents like the one at the train station must have happened over the years that without the net we did not hear about?

As we were only saying the other week with regards to certain people's behaviour on the coach there is a line you do not cross. It is up to us to enforce that kind of thinking at the games or we will go like football.

If we see it and do nothing we allow that to happen.

On the whole we have a cracking crowd. Lets be aware of the problems but not build them into something more than what they are.

And when it comes to education we need to have governments with the bottle to admit that not everyone is academically gifted. Being obsessed with everyone passing exams has resulted in the exams getting easier. I have a dog with 7 GCSE's!
The irrational belief in trying to get more and more people to have a degree is just resulting in having a degree becoming less and less impressive. The more people have one the less value there is to having one.

[lucky 13]

Where to begin?

I have more issue with the constant issues about language at matches. Rugby is a passionate sport and illicits passion in people. If you can't use a bit of fruity expression at a rugby match t oencourage the ref I'll be *********. I don't swear at home but my 6 year old smilingly accepts the upper ground about her dads abusive langauge at the rugby. So in the words of the charmer 3 rows in front of me...

"Listen love, if you dont like bad language then you can f**k off. F**k off home, put sky on and watch it there. But make sure you turn the f***ing sound off in case you here anything on there as well. Okay?"

It depends on how far the expression goes you may feel free to say what you want , the same way as I feel my children should not be earing it, you may say well dont bring them well it's a family game and no foul or abusive language is needed so if you used it next to me I would politely tell you to stop , if you carried on I would report you to a steward .
I'm no prude and express my self and feel as passionate as anyone else about Wigan I go to the match with 2 mates neither use foul language , I can honestly say I have never eared my dad swear at a rugby game or anywhere and I am proud of him for that, it's always been our first line of respect , I may be in a small minority but I cant see a problem with not causing offense .

[waterside glens]

the swearing doesn't bother me as long as it's not aimed personnaly at anyone but if anybody asked me to stop i would have no problem as some people find it offesive and i don't want to spoil anyones game.ihave never had any bother in wigan being at a game or walking through the town at night

[consigliere]

I have no problem with swearing at the match. You get worked up you let off steam and thats fine by me.
That said there is a But. Well a couple...

Firstly, there is the kind of odd word here and there then there is the idiot who can't speak without f this and f that.
No need for the latter.

Secondly, like most things if you just ask the person to curb it a bit they generally will without any hassle what so ever.
I know people are always appologising to me for swearing in front of my little girl at the game.
Someone "telling" someone to stop rather than asking is always likely to get a less positive reaction.


We definitely have lost the banter that used to go on between fans when we were not segregated and that is a pity. The comedy that was used between fans was sometimes the highlight of the game. That has gone now sadly replaced with two groups gesticulating at each other, then wondering why a few idiots take things too far.

[Bear]

When we went to Cardiff last year, we stood outside a pub with lots of Hull FC, KR and saints fans, Abserloutly no trouble at all just one big laugh. The wigan fans started to play rugby against some men dressed as the village people. There was the singing and that, but no abuse sang or shouted. Yes there was the odd "Your rubbish" And weel see what happens on the pitch. This is what the game needs, not idiots, we need fans to go out and make a day of it and enjoy themselfs. Was a very enjoyable day.