i dont think the issue is as simple as replacing brits for aussies its the standard of the aussies. Lets face it some of Wigan's best loved players were not home grown, Lam, Inga, Botica, Miles, Renouf etc etc, and i dont think anyone would really regrets Barrett's deal.
its when you replace british players with mediocre Foreign ones the problem starts. Wigan have a good base of home grown players and we have people in the wings, dont forget that 4 out the 5 signings for this year were british grant smith and phelps have been added but really are they not replacing barrett and pryce respectfully phelps for pyrce now (maybe they thought he would be ok by now) and smith for barrett ijn the future, is it really that doom and gloom?
It's already begun
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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: It's already begun
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure
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Wigan_forever1985
- Posts: 6573
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:50 pm
Re: It's already begun
i dont think the issue is as simple as replacing brits for aussies its the standard of the aussies. Lets face it some of Wigan's best loved players were not home grown, Lam, Inga, Botica, Miles, Renouf etc etc, and i dont think anyone would really regrets Barrett's deal.
its when you replace british players with mediocre Foreign ones the problem starts. Wigan have a good base of home grown players and we have people in the wings, dont forget that 4 out the 5 signings for this year were british grant smith and phelps have been added but really are they not replacing barrett and pryce respectfully phelps for pyrce now (maybe they thought he would be ok by now) and smith for barrett ijn the future, is it really that doom and gloom?
its when you replace british players with mediocre Foreign ones the problem starts. Wigan have a good base of home grown players and we have people in the wings, dont forget that 4 out the 5 signings for this year were british grant smith and phelps have been added but really are they not replacing barrett and pryce respectfully phelps for pyrce now (maybe they thought he would be ok by now) and smith for barrett ijn the future, is it really that doom and gloom?
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure
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Wigan_forever1985
- Posts: 6573
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:50 pm
Re: It's already begun
sorry meant 3 out of 4 and didn't mean to post twice but i cant delete it or edit it when i try it just takes me to the log on page
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure
Re: It's already begun
Just a footnote recriticising young players.
Joel Tomkins. Here and even worse on RLfans.com. posters were quite happy to see him moved on. He was no good etc etc. As I said at the time he was and he is.
Goulding is young. He is not the finished article by any means. However, anybody who has seen him play for any length of time knows he has the talent to be a SL centre for Wigan. This notion re defence is a myth IMO. He has had some excellent efforts in defence. If anything his greatest weakness at this stage is not passing to his winger and going alone after making a break.
Re imports. There is a difference between former imports and those being signed now. In the past they were longer term and filling gaps in the team.
Joel Tomkins. Here and even worse on RLfans.com. posters were quite happy to see him moved on. He was no good etc etc. As I said at the time he was and he is.
Goulding is young. He is not the finished article by any means. However, anybody who has seen him play for any length of time knows he has the talent to be a SL centre for Wigan. This notion re defence is a myth IMO. He has had some excellent efforts in defence. If anything his greatest weakness at this stage is not passing to his winger and going alone after making a break.
Re imports. There is a difference between former imports and those being signed now. In the past they were longer term and filling gaps in the team.
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butt monkey
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Re: It's already begun
Good points. I too, imo thought that JT should move on as Wigan do have a number of players for that back row position. This includes players that are deemed "immovable" from the first team! He's playing "well" at the moment.cpwigan wrote:Just a footnote recriticising young players.
Joel Tomkins. Here and even worse on RLfans.com. posters were quite happy to see him moved on. He was no good etc etc. As I said at the time he was and he is.
Goulding is young. He is not the finished article by any means. However, anybody who has seen him play for any length of time knows he has the talent to be a SL centre for Wigan. This notion re defence is a myth IMO. He has had some excellent efforts in defence. If anything his greatest weakness at this stage is not passing to his winger and going alone after making a break.
Re imports. There is a difference between former imports and those being signed now. In the past they were longer term and filling gaps in the team.
As for Goulding, his defense was one of the contributory factors in his dropping (he didn't "read" his defensive positioning on numerous times against Catalans at the JJB), I accept he wasn't the only one - yet his centre/wing partnership was targeted time and again by the French side to great effect.
[img]http://www.webdeveloper.com/animations/ ... monkey.gif[/img]
The biggest Room is the Room for improvement.
The best form of defence is attack!!
Out of the black and into the red, remember you don't get anything for two in a bed!!
The biggest Room is the Room for improvement.
The best form of defence is attack!!
Out of the black and into the red, remember you don't get anything for two in a bed!!
Re: It's already begun
Thats fair comment BM and I suppose it is the nature of young players that they are less consistent. I do think he has got better defensively and the big problem is that to get better he needs tobe exposed v SL teams/players. THe gap between first team and reserves is huge.
The one real nag I have is his desire to go it alone is a habit that will take time to shift because it is a trait from junior RL to the present day.
The one real nag I have is his desire to go it alone is a habit that will take time to shift because it is a trait from junior RL to the present day.
Re: It's already begun
Hopefully we will continue to loan out academy players to NL1 clubs for them to gain some experience at a higher level.
I am surprised that Stanton and Ainscough haven't been loaned out - as it would have more benefit on their careers than playing in the academy.
I am surprised that Stanton and Ainscough haven't been loaned out - as it would have more benefit on their careers than playing in the academy.
"And Martin Offiah, trying to make some space, now then..." - Ray French, Wembley 1994
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Interviewer: So that obviously means that you're not going to St Helens and you're not going to Leeds?
Frano: I don't know why I would ever want to go to St Helens or Leeds
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Interviewer: So that obviously means that you're not going to St Helens and you're not going to Leeds?
Frano: I don't know why I would ever want to go to St Helens or Leeds
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Re: It's already begun
I agree, and I wonder if that might be an option for O'Carroll - if it's a salary cap issue, don't let him go, but loan him for a year somewhere.Matthew wrote:Hopefully we will continue to loan out academy players to NL1 clubs for them to gain some experience at a higher level.
I am surprised that Stanton and Ainscough haven't been loaned out - as it would have more benefit on their careers than playing in the academy.
Re: It's already begun
I think some people are expecting a bit too much from some of these young players, they are not going to go from playing academy rugby to outstanding super league players.
First of all these player aren't going into the best squad in super league, Wigan don't really have any key experienced figures (Farrell, Sinfield, Cunningham etc) which makes it a lot harder for the young players.
Wigan push some of their academy players too far this is especially true in the past with players like Aspinwall, Hodgeson, Wild who all had potential but never progress because they were expected to go from academy to super league within weeks.
Young players will often play very well for about 2 or 3 games when they are first called into the squad because they are playing on enthusiasms but after a few games that isn't enough to get by in the super league as the extra demand of the super league catch up on them.
Leeds and Saints have successfully developed a lot of good young players in the last few season because they no how to manage them. They play the young players in spells of between 1 and 3 player to build there experience without putting too much pressure on them.
A good example at the moment is Saints development of Steve Tyrer who will probably be a very good centre in a few years but at the moment is playing 1 or 2 games every so often.
First of all these player aren't going into the best squad in super league, Wigan don't really have any key experienced figures (Farrell, Sinfield, Cunningham etc) which makes it a lot harder for the young players.
Wigan push some of their academy players too far this is especially true in the past with players like Aspinwall, Hodgeson, Wild who all had potential but never progress because they were expected to go from academy to super league within weeks.
Young players will often play very well for about 2 or 3 games when they are first called into the squad because they are playing on enthusiasms but after a few games that isn't enough to get by in the super league as the extra demand of the super league catch up on them.
Leeds and Saints have successfully developed a lot of good young players in the last few season because they no how to manage them. They play the young players in spells of between 1 and 3 player to build there experience without putting too much pressure on them.
A good example at the moment is Saints development of Steve Tyrer who will probably be a very good centre in a few years but at the moment is playing 1 or 2 games every so often.
Re: It's already begun
[quote="butt monkey]As for Goulding, his defense was one of the contributory factors in his dropping (he didn't "read" his defensive positioning on numerous times against Catalans at the JJB), I accept he wasn't the only one - yet his centre/wing partnership was targeted time and again by the French side to great effect.[/quote]
Goulding didnt even play against Catalans at home as he was injured. It was Colbon that played centre and who had a shocker in defence.
Goulding's defence is actually good for a centre of his age, especially considering the amount of times he is left exposed by the defenders inside him. This often means he gets the blame for things that arent even his fault such as 2 man overlaps or people making breaks on his inside because people arent drifting. His defence is certainly no worse than Carmonts who is pretty poor at times in defence. However as he is the current flavour of the month everyone seems to ignore it.
Goulding didnt even play against Catalans at home as he was injured. It was Colbon that played centre and who had a shocker in defence.
Goulding's defence is actually good for a centre of his age, especially considering the amount of times he is left exposed by the defenders inside him. This often means he gets the blame for things that arent even his fault such as 2 man overlaps or people making breaks on his inside because people arent drifting. His defence is certainly no worse than Carmonts who is pretty poor at times in defence. However as he is the current flavour of the month everyone seems to ignore it.