Calderwood exit confirmed

[Mike]

Yet again, I can only ask why we don't wait until we see what we've actually got for 2009 before kicking off. Everyone's grumbling about us not having a fast winger when they don't even know if we will sign one or not, or even if we have already signed one in Phelps.

So do you honestly think we will be making any more significant signings in the backs for 2009? Before TB decided to leave IL said in the program notes at one of the games he expected to sign one or maybe two players for 2009 as we were still contending with the salary cap.

Dave - surely we can make new signings for next season. Given that everyone bar Riddell and Pryce is salaried already at the club now and we are under the cap. We are losing Higham and Calderwood and Barrett from that squad for next season. Riddell and Pryce will be approximately covered by Higham and Calderwood. Barrett will be on a packet if ML lived up to his reputation. I reckon out of his salary, we've room for one major and one minor addition to next years squad and I expect them to be from UK clubs (and the Sept 1st deadline prevents us from talking to potential targets right now), or two solid players.

What is your reasoning that says we won't have any additions in 2009?

[weststand-rich]

"I realise I could be wrong about that, but I think it's worth considering. For what it's worth, I saw Calders a couple of weeks ago nipping round a corner and into a shop - he was noticeably hobbling. Could have been a knock in training, or it might be that the ankle now takes a lot of warming up and gives hm problems after exercise."

I've noticed him limping very slightly twice now. Once when he was walking back to line up for a kick off and once when the warriors were doing some gubbins at my daughters school. The two times were months apart so maybe his ankle is still a bit crook and only making him operate at 90%???????

[Nine]

Jeez, Dave, is it so hard? The question is simply: why kick off until you know (I'll repeat that - KNOW) what we have for next year? We can all speculate, have an opinion and guess what might happen but there's no point getting actually hot under the collar until you know. For the record, since you ask, I think we probably will make at least one maybe two more signings but, as Mike says, we can't openly go for GB-based players yet. But that's a guess not a fact, by the way.

And the point about Calders, for the hard of understanding, was that it was just a thought about a possible alternative reason for why we don't rely on him this year. Not claiming it as a fact, just speculating, chucking a point in for debate.

Maybe the fact that I consider possibilities rather than leap to conclusions gives you a problem, but putting words in my mouth is not an acceptable form of debate. I don't think the club, Nobby, IL or anyone is always right. I don't even think I'm always right (another challenging concept, there) and though I give my honest opinion I accept that I might be mistaken in the end (e.g. lost patience with Pat Richards in 2006, now think he's great. He proved me wrong.). What I do think is that Brian Noble and Ian Lenagan and Joe Lydon are doing their best for the club and the team as they see it. They may not always be correct in all their decisions but so far, in my opinion, they've been doing a pretty decent job and I'm willing to give them until the end of the season before judging what progress we've made this year.

Snide remarks about people who "think the club and Nobby are always right" are uncalled for. You know me of old, Dave, from this forum and others, and you know full well I've had the odd rant when I think I'm justified. Thing is, I don't go off on one that often because A) I work hard to retain a sense of perspective in life generally and usually don't think a rant is justified and B) I'm one of life's optimists. Allow people to be different from yourself.

I've already said I'll kick off too if Colbon is a first-choice winger for next year becaue IMO he's not good enough at SL level for that. And I've said in print in the paper: "...while some players just need their backside kicking, there are others who have simply not produced the goods at all this year. Every coach in the salary cap era has a limited squad to draw on, but surely with only skipper Sean O’Loughlin and Karl Pryce on the injured list at the moment there are a few other options for Brian Noble to try. Let’s not lose sight of the fact that this squad has real quality within it and with Tim Smith to add his talents we don’t need to be too downhearted. But it is now time to find the right formula and quickly – third or even second is still achievable but a few more lost opportunities like last weekend and we’re back to dreaming about next season instead of having realistic hopes for this."

Not negative enough? Tough.

[GeoffN]

[quote="DaveO

I think it boils down to the honeymoon period being over for Noble. So that means some people are prepared to question his decisions and in this case just why Noble doesn't play Calderwood or want him at the club because he is a very good winger.

Dave[/quote]

I think that's exactly right, Dave. I've been one of those sticking with Noble up to now, but even I'm starting to lose patience with him. I think it's mainly his decision to stick with Mathers at fb, as well as preferring Colbon to Calderwood, that bemuses me. To some extent, I can see the justification of sticking with Fielden, which is the other main contentious one, on the theory of playing him back into form (which I think is starting to happen, judging from the last 3 or 4 games).

Seems like everyone but Nobby can see that Richards/Colbon/Calderwood is better than Mathers/Richards/Colbon.

[MrDave]

Dave - surely we can make new signings for next season. Given that everyone bar Riddell and Pryce is salaried already at the club now and we are under the cap. We are losing Higham and Calderwood and Barrett from that squad for next season. Riddell and Pryce will be approximately covered by Higham and Calderwood. Barrett will be on a packet if ML lived up to his reputation. I reckon out of his salary, we've room for one major and one minor addition to next years squad and I expect them to be from UK clubs (and the Sept 1st deadline prevents us from talking to potential targets right now), or two solid players.

What is your reasoning that says we won't have any additions in 2009?

Hopefully Riddle and Pryce's contracts will be no where near as much as Higham and Calderwood were on. Ok we don't actually know how much they were on but Lenegan said he wanted to even out the wages at Wigan which is probably the reason Higham and Calderwood are leaving. If Lenegan wants to even out the wages at the squad there is no point releasing the players on high wages and then just give two new player the same contracts.

With Barrett, Higham and Calderwood all leaving Wigan should free up a lot of space on the salary cap but Lenegan isn't going to start handing out big contracts just because he can.

[butt monkey]

I an Utopian world, Wigan would resign every player that has become any fan's favourite. No reserve graders would fail to "make the grade" and top line internationals from all countries would be "falling over themselves" in an effort to ply their trade here.

Back to the thread.

However, Wigan did not "take up" the final year option on Mark Calderwood's contract - as indicated by Mike, this was speculated upon at the end of last season. He himself, was advised by his agent, David Howes to do so, as that was his prerogative (and more than likely he would not be offered anywhere near as much by another club at that time), forcing Wigan to pay and utilise him within the team. A player that the club (or BN more than likely), was willing to "let go" at the end of last season.

The salary of £70k is speculation - I myself heard that ML, in desperation to announce a replacement for the departing Brian Carney (a player who ML would not grant a release to until his replacement was signed, and who himself covered himself in very little glory in an effort to gain an early release from his contract in order to play alongside Andrew Johns at Newcastle) offered far more.

The figures "bandied" about will always remain truly unknown. I myself heard (and understand), that ML offered Mark Calderwood more than double Leeds' final offer, in an attempt to prevent any complex contract wrangles/negotiations/new offers, after being "gazumped" by Stains in the clubs effort to sign Leon Pryce at the same time. This figure was around (I am led to believe) is nearer to £100k! Leeds were offering (and informed his agent that) NO MORE than a figure of between £30k-£40k per season was available for their top scorer (might be a hint there as to how other clubs stay under the cap )

The player was "announced" as a new signing to replace Carney after an away fixture at stains on Radio Manchester (My friend and I remember listening to it).

Now I know some on here will "pull apart" what I understand to be "closer to the events", that is fine. Yet do not dismiss so easily what is possible under the stewardship of someone who was so willing to pay such a vast fortune in wages to an (at that point) injured centre in David Vaeliki amongst others. And was also "desperate" to sign a replacement for "fan's favourite" Mr Carney, especially after just missing out on Leon Pryce.

Mark Calderwood may have an injury that will not fully heal, but I doubt that this is the deciding factor in his non retention.

It is also interesting to note, that over 60 posts have been made on a player with limited first team appearances this season (who, whether you think he's the best since Offiah or about as much use as Ronnie Braithwaite is going). This has caused a considerable debate over how they envisage Wigan playing in the future, with a player deemed Wigan's fastest, set to depart.

I simply believe that the club is trying to "reign in" contracts. Paying players (irrespective of fan's feelings), what the club thinks they are worth or deserving. I bet, if Mark Calderwood (and his agent) were to have approached Wigan with more reasonable request for "new terms", then he may still have been part of the club's long term future. He is (apparently) set to sign for Hull to "take up" Matt Sing's wages (if you believe everything you read). Good for them and their salary cap!

The former Leeds man added: "I would like to go back to Yorkshire, that's the plan at the moment anyway. But wherever I go, I feel I should be joining a Super League club.

This "sounds" like a man appearing to decide that he may have to be slightly more "thrifty" in the future, with possible recession and hugely increasing costs for all concerned and the impact this will have on players too. Does he still have property in Yorkshire? Did he move permanently to Wigan? I am not sure, however, if he has property already, he is just being wise in seeking to play "closer to home" imo.

[shawcross da warrior]

i personally cant see who were going to replac calders with who is as fast as him...

he may be a liability sometimes in defence but when he has a decent centre inside of him he is as good as any other winger in super league...

[butt monkey]

Phelps (if re-signed), Pryce (if he gets fit), Stanton (if he gets his chance) or any number of other possible permutations (yet more signings).

[MrDave]

i personally cant see who were going to replac calders with who is as fast as him...

he may be a liability sometimes in defence but when he has a decent centre inside of him he is as good as any other winger in super league...

Calderwood might be quick but his speed is not the big advantage it was when he was at Leeds. Injuries and age have been against him so he is defiantly not the fastest in Super League perhaps not even the fastest at Wigan.

[cpwigan]

You are all arguing and I have not even joined in.

Let's be honest we all want the club to do well but we will and should from time to time disagree how that is progressing and the direction being taken.

I think there is a balance in these forums

The lunatic Left headed by yours truly who fear the worst and that the world is doomed as Leeds and Saints take all out valuables.

The righteous right headed by Nine etc who think utopia is found on the path being taken by IL, JL and Nobby.

Somewhere in the middle and probably nearer the truth is Geoff et al. Don't you hate him for being measured and sensible in his views. :eusa4:

I actually hope I am wrong. As I lose and so does everybody else here. However, the day we stop caring and arguing the toss is the days we had when we ended up in division 2

Just to make you all feel better. The USA appointed the Iraqi Govt post war with people they could trust. The minister for defence was an Iraqi living in London claiming benefits and with no qualifications. As minister for defence he siphoned off billions of dollars into his and friends accounts and did a deal with Poland to supply the Iraqi military. The supplies either never turned up or were obsolete. The minister for defence escaped in a private jet he had bought with iraqi govt money and now leases properties he has bought in London whilst he jets between 3 or 4 countries. ALL TRUE

And we worry about the RFL and IL :eusa16: