Brian "should of gone to specsavers" Noble

[lucky 13]

The only thing my post proves is I am capable of taking an objective viewpoint of all our players.

Has Coley been a good player for us in most games this season? Yes so I see no reason to slag him off if has the odd off game.

I agree but in my and most peoples opinions so as Phelps .

Is Phelps defence suspect and did he cost us 12 points v Cas? Absolutely.

Yes he did. Has he also made good yards bringing out the ball and linked better than other players who we have played, often putting out a try pass? Absolutley.

Phelps defence is poor. You can ignore that fact if you like but what I am pointing out is that for some reason people do ignore it when others are criticised for less such as Ainscough. His defence became a big issue earlier in the season as some sought to use that as an excuse to defend Noble dropping him. Phelps has missed 30 tackles so far. For a full back that is pretty dire.

His defence does need to improve and I agree with you re Ainscough.

So how to I make him out?

I honestly do not have a clue what you are getting at with the above

I pointed out that he cost us 12 points v Cas. Do you remember him waiting for the ball to run dead earlier in the season only for the opposition player to reach between his legs to touch the ball down for a try? I am dealing with facts here that point to the another fact that he isn't very good defensively.

I do remember I also remember a few good passes and him having good games Leeds seems to stick out at home, can you remember Dave?

I honestly do not have a clue what you are getting at in the above paragraph.

Dont worry it saves me some finger work on the keys

I don't think Phelps would get a place at any other club bar Celtic. If Wigan release him at the end of his current deal I'd be quite surprised to see him be offered a spot at a top club. He isn't as good a full back as any of the ones at teams who are above us in the table.

Dave

I think a few imports who play week in week out are not as good not just at full back, in a few of the positions he can play he is also probably better than a lot of the home grown talent and just for his utility and cover he would get a contract over here. I think he links well with Sam and would like him to have a go at 6 .

[cpwigan]

:huh2: So Dave O does not rate Phelps. Another poster does. Last time I looked you were allowed to disagree / agree and therefore Dave O is perfectly entitled to his opinion as others with a contrary view are but asinine posts like Jims are pointless and worthless. If you are going to agree or disagree dicuss the POV or argument rather than the poster.

[lucky 13]

:huh2: So Dave O does not rate Phelps. Another poster does. Last time I looked you were allowed to disagree / agree and therefore Dave O is perfectly entitled to his opinion as others with a contrary view are but asinine posts like Jims are pointless and worthless. If you are going to agree or disagree dicuss the POV or argument rather than the poster.

If we all agreed no point in a forum. With no Dave O "quoteafons" it would be a lot less fun I have to admit

[highland convert]

CP after twenty years running three businesses at the same tim with multiple squads I had to know how to motivate people. If the members on here read and believe what is written it causes a depressing in the phyccy of the reader. Rather than watch the game they hunt the mistake. Last nights game was a seat edger but I wonder how many were counting Robert's errors. Coleys mistakes, Fielden drops. It is part of the game but on here totally unacceptable. Losses, wins etc. Nobody was perfect We did not lose that many more than Leeds but the poor start is totally unforgiven. Given that Noble has gotten us here and has a more settled team from the start this coming season I would like to see him get the opportunity.

Oh and I sacked my lead driver on my tranport side because he thought he was more important than me.

Jim

[EDINBURGH-WARRIOR]

I would be very pleased to see Fielden & Coley as England's 2 starting props .Would make me very happy .

[lucky 13]

Oh and I sacked my lead driver on my tranport side because he thought he was more important than me.

Jim

Given some players performances week in week out, the lack of fitness, seeing that most young players have stepped in and come up to the mark and in some cases bettered it. I wish Noble had applied your logic

[old hooker]

I would be very pleased to see Fielden & Coley as England's 2 starting props .Would make me very happy .

It would make their opponents happy too.

[cpwigan]

Oddly Jim that is what coaches do. They have people who collect those statistics. They seek to minimise those mistakes. Every try is a mistake (it always will be)(in any sport). They are even more precise in the NRL. They analyse things to the nth degree. The players future depends on their ability to minimise mistakes and they are reminded of that non stop. Hence, the NRL is far better than SL. Strange that in't it. Hyper critical yet better.

Sport is not like business. It never has been.

Your driver probably did

[cpwigan]

Valid and constructive criticism should rarely have an impact on a player if it is done in the right way. In life in general that also applies but slightly less as ordinary folks are not nor never would be professiopnal sportsmen/women. Maybe those that take it badly are not cut out for professional sport. Maybe fans over estimate their own and their peers impact. Any comment I ever make is done so with the knowledge that the best players think comments by fans are worthless and irrelevant.

The result is immaterial. You can win a game and have played poorly, you can lose a game and have played well. Performance is everything and if a team / player is to improve then he needs to and he tends to be self critical. The biggest critic or an outstanding player is himself. Outstanding players always look at what they could do better and that is the route to self improvement. Outstanding players win a match/win a competition and are immediately focussing upon the next match. Outstanding players hate losing more than they love winning.

Excessive unrealistic praise / inaccurate positive praise leads to over confidence, laziness and underachievement.

If you look at the great coaches / clubs. The drive was to improve but there was a tinge of fear / respect for the person in charge. Jack Gibson / Wayne Bennett were/are coaches that could be brutal and blunt. Daniel Anderson could put the fear of God into St Helens players if need be. You see it in other sports.

The drive for perfections works even better when genuine competition for places exists. Shape up or ship out. George Carmont has experienced that. Amazing how some other players form is influenced by contracts. If you know you cannot get dropped or sacked / released or if released despite poor form will still have a club to go to then complacency and under achievement nearly always results.

Wigan's Monday meetings were brutally critical between the players. The Wigan players were brutally critical of themselves. Kris Radlinski has written about how the demands placed upon him early in his career made him a far better player. How the lack of demands / excessive back slapping produce very poor standards later in his career. Some fans will even read that and then be a happy clapper. They might as well not have read it IMO.

I actually think some fans are more afraid of criticism of players than they should be and it says more about them personally than the topic. Maybe it makes those fans feel better to ignore the truth that there are positives / negative in almost every player / team / game. Refusing to face reality is very dangerous. I can even recall interviews with so called experts pre the 1982 Kangaroo Tour. Hindsight shows how ludicrous they were because they wanted to avoid reality. Moreover, those voices that dared speak the truth were condemned.

Everything in life improves by asking how can it be better.

[weststand-rich]

The truth is that none of us know how Brian Noble works as an operational manager, because none of us (are we??) are members of the Wigan RL playing squad. He could be a brilliant man manager with excellent tactical analysis, but working with players that are not good enough across the board. Or he could be a rubbish and lazy manager with a playing squad that is underachieving but good enough to carry him.

** Since none of us will experience how he works all we can judge him on is the results of the club on the pitch. This year we had a poor start and after 10 games had won 3 games. We then improved and through the tailend of the season were playing well. We finished 6th and through the playoffs have been playing well and are in with a decent shout for the GF. We are playing better at the end of the season than at the start.

** Note. For the fans who don't like any appraisal of our performance to include the negative I've tried to use neutral and non pejorative language where possible. I apologise for the description of a 30% win rate as poor, but 30% sucess is poor. I doubt that 30% would even get you a GCSE these days??