Wigan 16 Warrington 23

[Brian McTigue]

Inexperience / experience is a common misconception. Sam Tomkins is inexperienced. Amos Roberts, Martin Gleeson, George Carmont are experienced. Who played better. Inexperienced Liam Farrell did very well in his brief spell. Experience is over rated. Quality matters.

[DaveO]

Mr Dave O I wll repeat what I said and what I saw Wigan RLFC could have won tonight. One error/mistake rectified and Wigan RLFC won. At Warrington away the one error/mistake was made by Wire so your negativity and lack of belief in your own team/players beggars belief and was incorrect.

I saw a team cough the ball up time and again and several times the ball was knocked out by strong Wire tackling. We spent a lot of time in out own half in the second half due to these errors but they were not unforced. Wire deserved to win and just because we could have nicked it had we had a bit of luck doesn't alter the fact we got a battering in the pack. It was the right result unfortunately and I am sure Madge knows that as well.

Your assumption that somehow the experienced players made the difference does not stand up because Wigan full of those players could have lost quite easily at Wire. The margin between victory and defeat is very small. If you stand next to a busy road and say there is going to be a crash often enough then you will be right at least once. It does not make you a soothsayer.

It stands up because it was obvious they ran out of steam as the game progressed. Yes as mentioned elsewhere players like Sam are inexperienced but that isn't where the game was lost. It was lost in the pack and I think that was blindingly obvious. I said I thought it would and I said why I thought it would be before the game on here. If you want to imply that is coincidence with your soothsayer comment you go right ahead. I think I was pointing out something pretty likely to happen. Unfortunately I was right so what do you want me to do? Apologise for daring to suggest we didn't have the pack to match Wires?

Dave

[DaveO]

You seem to think that Feka would have made a difference had he been on the pitch. Yes the team lacked size and that is one thing that Feka does have, but you seem to be ignoring the fact that Feka tends to have poor games versus Warrington.

How do you know he would have had a poor one tonight? I thought he got stood up in the cup semi but the next time we played them their hooker who's name I can't spell (!) got little joy v Feka.

Feka can make an impact when he charges at defences after a long run up. However, that doesn't work against Wire and never has for Feka, because they move up so quickly that he doesn't have time to do this.
Then when given the ball from a standing start he can't accelerate as well as the other players and so again the defence would move up fast and catch him standing still.

But playing the pack we did, didn't work either and I don't think you can generalise and say the only way he can play is with a long run up or suggest they would prevent him from doing this every time. It only needs one to come off and there you go. We certainly had no one capable of breaking their line like Feka can tonight.

Also I agree that Solomona would not be guaranteed a place in our side, but I also don't think he was that effective for Wire either. I don't think he particularly stood out and for such a big man he was brought down rather easily when you compare him to the smaller but much more effective Ben Westwood.

We had to tackle him. It all contributes to tiring the team out.

Also, there is a massive gulf in class between Solomona and Feka. Solomona may be looking overweight but he's still one of the more skillful back row forwards in the league. He's tormented us for quite a few years when at Wakefield, Bradford and now Warrington.
He's a very good player but he didn't have the best of nights. I see no reason why Feka would have had much success against such a strong Wire defence.

To suggest there is a gulf in class is going OTT. Solomoana never has been that great a player IMO. I have never feared him in any side he's been in. The point is though Smith will use him and he gets some value out of him. Madge won't use Feka but instead does daft things like play Deacon for 10 mins.

Some of Wire forwards were not that mobile either. In fact most of their front row were a lot less mobile than our pack but they still beat us in the forwards.

The forwards did stand up well, they were much much smaller than their opponents yet they still played fairly well.
You're advocating playing Feka, yet there are only 2 players who were likely to miss out, Farrell and Tuson.
Both of those players had good games. Tuson may have looked a little small for a prop but his try was excellent, showing strength and pace. Liam Farrell was also lively and one of our better players.

They had their moments but they were simply not big enough against the pack they faced. Feka would, IMO have been able to stand up to the Wire pack better. It wasn't a problem last week v a puny Salford side but I think you are confusing effort (of which there was plenty) with effectiveness which was lacking.

The Wire pack as a whole is much better, and they are much better whether we have Feka in the side or not and I don't believe he would make any difference whatsoever.

I completely disagree and I don't think you have any basis to suggest it either. You have to make out Feka is in effect rubbish (which is what your post is all about really) and he isn't. He is an SL standard player. Given how tonight's game went in the forwards it is simply not sensible to try and beat a pack like Wire's by playing the same pack again. It doesn't work and any coach would look to make changes. We have an SL standard player available and it's mistake not to try him given plan A doesn't work IMO. There is nothing to lose and I think it's rather pig-headed of Madge to put out such an inexperienced pack when it patently isn't going to win the forward battle which he himself must know now.

Dave

[El Bobbers]

But many of our errors were curtesy of experienced players and the errors were spread throughout the team (forwards and backs), it was a poor performance all round. The addition of Feka would have made no difference and neither would Coley. However, to say we can't win big games remains to be seen, so far haven't we won 1 lost 1 to each of the big teams?

[DaveO]

But many of our errors were curtesy of experienced players and the errors were spread throughout the team (forwards and backs), it was a poor performance all round. The addition of Feka would have made no difference and neither would Coley. However, to say we can't win big games remains to be seen, so far haven't we won 1 lost 1 to each of the big teams?

But many of the errors were forced not just us dropping the ball (and most were by the forwards). And I don't see how you can say neither Coley or Feka would have mode no difference. Coley has been our best prop all season and when Fielden went off that left Prescott as the senior prop (!) which was IMO a bad (and unnecessary) situation to be in.

If anyone had said would you want Mossop (or Tuson) and Prescott facing on the pitch at the same time against Morely and Co there isn't one poster on this board who would want that to happen. Without Coley and refusing to play Feka that's what we got.

Dave

[old hooker]

We were beaten up after the first 20 mins by a better pack,halfs cannot play behind a beaten pack although Sam and Tommy made every effort to do so.Pat had another fine game and Riddell was busy.Amos Roberts seemed to be disinterested,was he injured? Joel Tomkins needs to be more disciplined,Lockers not at his best last night but Farrell had a decent game.I do think Coley would have made a difference but im not saying we would have won the game. Why on earth was Deacon not used until the last 9 minutes? MM has done a good job in getting us to the top of the league but he is human and he makes mistakes.His habit of not utilising the bench is a mystery and needs to be rectified.I am not saying that had Feka played we would have won but he must feel aggrieved after our props are so ineffective in big games.

[Brian McTigue]

Mr Dave O you are a very strange 'fan' you seemed desparate for Wigan RLFC to lose just so you could gloat and carp saying I told you so.
Your negative wish came true but it could quite as easily have been totally wrong and a team playing poorly in some respects could have won.
RL is a mental game of bullying. If Wigan had made more of their first 20 minutes they would have psychologically been so far on top Warrington could not have come back. A stricter referee such as Ganson may have dispatched a Wire player to the sidelines for 10 minutes. The indiscipline of Wire brought about by pressure was ridiculous in that first spell. WE should have been 12+ points up in tht spell.
Look how those Wire playes changed once on top, once in the lead. Wire are a great bullying team. Briers is a classic example. When Wigan came back their demeanour again changed. If anything the Wigan youngsters were let down by the experienced players but those players gave their all. Level of experience is nonsense and something fans talk about.
I am not sure if Prescott played at the kick that led to 6 more but referees make mistakes as do players. Our players gave their all, they defended like trojans but were not good enough with ball in hand. Pally would have let them down. He always has. The modern game has no place for dinosaurs unless your team is incredibly fit and healthy and can cary a cameo 10 minute player. Ben Davies probably deserves an opportunity before Pally but the club realise he is better getting experience at Widnes. Anybody can be 19th man. Even Pally.
At the start of this season you Mr Dave O did not expect this present squad to be capable of challenging for SL. You though 2010 should be written off. So on the big question you got it totally wrong and last night you were fortunate to get it right. Why are you so negative about your own club.
Coach Maguire and his coaches have done and are doing a fantastic job. Let's get behind the team, support them and not become Dave O's. Who do fans want in charge Coach Maguire or Coach Dave O?

[ancientnloyal]

I wonder who could have reason for a gripe at DaveO? surely not a 'new' member

[Exiled Wiganer]

There is no point arguing with Dave O, BT. He will repeat his assertions ad nauseum. Given that they are opinions you can waste a large part of your life attempting to get someone to change them.
I thought we were beaten in the pack at times, but that the kicking game was the big difference between the sides. Sam at 1 and Deacon at 7 looked to be working pretty well to me.
I think Amos has been poor in each of our 3 significant losses this year, though I have a lot of sympathy with him. He was playing brilliantly before his injury and may do so again, but his positioning or handling is a problem under pressure. I think if MM made a mistake it was in the backs rather than the forwards.
On Feca, our success (and we have seen far more of it this year than from pretty much the same players in the last few years) has been a collective endeavour. If someone say fails to meet expected standards then it seems to me entirely consistent not to play them. Feca has been paid a fantastic sum of money by our club. Faced with the Feca/Dave O camp of MM's camp, I think I'll side with the man who has transformed so many players and given us so many games to savour.
I think we can still top the league, esp as Wire have 4 tough games in succession and will have Wembley on their minds. I doubt we will make the GF because we lack a dominant 7 and an enforcer prop.
Next year we could well be seeing Quinn, Finch, Lima, Hoffman and Hock supplementing the team that has done us proud this year. Then we will be really something.
Finally, I was proud of our boys last night, and have been proud of them all year. They could have caved in last night given how poorly they were playing but they dug deeper and deeper and came very close. With Coley back, Lockers and Amos fit and a dry track, watch us go.
Come on Wigan!

[jobo]

In the words of the Hives "I hate to say I told you so", Wigan cannot win the big matches and will not win anything this season, not even the league.

Wigan were bullied by Warrington but also failed to take advantage of their opportunities. Also taking the two points shows that Wigan do not value their territorial advantage.

Tending to agree. Their strengths a monster pack, our strengths, excellent back line, we played to their game plan, same as we did against Leeds and the smellys.

I'd say taking the 2 points changed the game in their favour, as it gave them time to regroup. We were running rings round them up to that point and it gave them time to regroup and slow the game down.