Bilko.

[markill]

Kittwazzer - Why so specific as 1996? Was there no build up to it or did it 'just happen' in your estimation?

It switched to summer in 1996

[cpwigan]

Ron, I think it is harder to 'love' the game as much as in the mid 80s to late 90s. The game then was far from perfect but it was a huge improvement upon the 70's, very early 80s in this country. However, the game allowed far more scope for less than perfect players and risk taking. Whatsmore, you were far more likely to see outside backs making breaks from their own half and scoring long range tries. Even now if I get down by the modern game I dig out a DVD and watch a game from yesteryear.

I always remember Shaun Edwards arguing that the 10 yard rule would actually reduce exciting attacking play than promote it. Edwards was very much a lone voice as people naturally felt more room = more ball movement, tries etc etc. In fact more room made it too easy, too necessary to play 1 out yardage RL and to only consider playing expansive RL in the opponents 20.

Edwards IMO was right when you combine his thinking with players who largely are light years ahead of the players of the 80/90s in terms of fitness and athleticism.

Imagin 15 man teams with only 2 reserves. Does so many interchanges make for a better game?

You will see posts I posted here asking questions about RL in 2012 several weeks ago. If you want to win things these days it seems you must limit errors and the easiest way to do that is to limit how often you catch and pass a ball, always run forward never going sidways or around a player/team. Leeds epitomise what is wrong with RL today. A CC Final appearance that for 40 minutes they strangled, a Play Off eliminator they strangled. Anybody guess what they will try in GF?

Wigan were dumb but is being dumb good or bad? Do you want exciting RL or effective RL. The problem is can exciting RL be maintained? Wigan only managed it for brief periods. Is it possible in the modern era? I can remember Wigan winning the League Title, a proper title, a magnificent trophy still held by Wigan v Fev at CP and the Fev players were quote afterwards, it was like trying to catch pidgeons. The magic of Miles/Offiah, the sheer brilliance of Ellery. Whatsmore, the variety of play; Ducky O'Donnell chip and regather from kick offs in his own 20 over onrushing defenders; the Lowe era move with players left, right, the ball going everywhere before coming back to the middle for Bell or Lydon to score.

I saw Mark Preston last week. He still look incredibly fit BUT could Mark Preston play in the RL today? Could Offiah? Jason Robinson? If you are too small heaven help you regardless of ability If you are too Big forget it.

So we have a much tougher spectacle to sell exacerbated by frustration as regards how the game is managed from the bottom officiating to how Red Hall make key decisions.

If you dare criticise what is taking place you are attacked. Even IL attacks any such negativity. He has publically done so only very recently. Are we likely to see a fans forum again :doz:

If somebody falls out of love with something why should they be criticised for doing so. WF wants to dictate how individuals feel. Every individual has the right to choose how they spend their time as long as iot does not break any law. People need more than blind loyalty to make them spend their hard earned on something they are finding harder and harder to enjoy.

The sad part and probably the crux. Does anybody expect the RFL to change and/or let alone care? 2012 will see the birth of my son. Would I advise him to play RL? or RU? or soccer? Anything but RL sadly.

[Kittwazzer]

And we sold out to Sky. Maybe it was the only way to survive but it doesn't mean we have to like it!

[Bilko]

Well I'd just like to say everyone is different. Maybe the poster who called me an "idiot" doesn't have to worry about how he pays to attend games. Some of us do sadly. I struggled a lot earlier in the year to get to away matches. I openly talked on my Twitter about battling depression earlier this year, maybe my opinion the other day was part of that. It is an illness that never, ever goes away!! All this "idiot" is guilty of though is speaking from the heart, as I've tried to do for 11 years now. If that makes me an "idiot" then so be it.

[markill]

I saw Mark Preston last week. He still look incredibly fit BUT could Mark Preston play in the RL today? Could Offiah? Jason Robinson? If you are too small heaven help you regardless of ability If you are too Big forget it.

I think these players could still play today's game - to be honest I don't see them being too far removed from what we have in the game today. Charnley plays today. Keiran Dixon plays today. I don't see them being much different physically to Mark Preston or Jason Robinson as examples.

Mark Preston is still super fit. I was in a spinning class with him the other week, he cruised it, I couldn't cope. He goes 2/3 times a week, I've not been back since! If anything he is bigger on the shoulders/upper body than he was when he played Wigan. Modern conditioning applied to the players you talk about, with their raw speed or elusiveness they naturally had, they would still have been successful wingers in the current game.

Its the old props and hookers that would struggle in todays game.

Is there a chance that rose coloured spectacles and misty water coloured memories are shaping opinions as much as what we're seeing? I'm just playing devils advocate here because I agree there are some major flaws in the structure of the game at the moment that could be holding it back and making week in week out quality and intensity reduce - but crowds were up nearly 8% in Super League this year and it was the second highest average match attendance since SL began (therefore the second best since 'reliable' records began in the early 80s).

[Warriors Forever]

I have never brought anyones personal circumstances into it! So were as that come from? I have also deleted and apologised the 'idiot' post,

If someone would like to explain how i said having depression or not being able to afford going is a disgrace???

The only thing i have stated being a disgrace is when someone turns their backon the great game of rugby league for no reason other than you dont agree with the way the games going

[cpwigan]

I saw Mark Preston last week. He still look incredibly fit BUT could Mark Preston play in the RL today? Could Offiah? Jason Robinson? If you are too small heaven help you regardless of ability If you are too Big forget it.

I think these players could still play today's game - to be honest I don't see them being too far removed from what we have in the game today. Charnley plays today. Keiran Dixon plays today. I don't see them being much different physically to Mark Preston or Jason Robinson as examples.

Mark Preston is still super fit. I was in a spinning class with him the other week, he cruised it, I couldn't cope. He goes 2/3 times a week, I've not been back since! If anything he is bigger on the shoulders/upper body than he was when he played Wigan. Modern conditioning applied to the players you talk about, with their raw speed or elusiveness they naturally had, they would still have been successful wingers in the current game.

Its the old props and hookers that would struggle in todays game.

Is there a chance that rose coloured spectacles and misty water coloured memories are shaping opinions as much as what we're seeing? I'm just playing devils advocate here because I agree there are some major flaws in the structure of the game at the moment that could be holding it back and making week in week out quality and intensity reduce - but crowds were up nearly 8% in Super League this year and it was the second highest average match attendance since SL began (therefore the second best since 'reliable' records began in the early 80s).

I think that is a reasonable assumption.

However, I am not sure re say Preston or even Offiah. Both were prepared to go on the outside, swerve around opposing wingers, risking going into touch etc. Hitting it up drom acting half and getting bashed was not their game. Can you imagine coaches / fans / SKY numptys if they approached RL like that today. Hence we have Charnley and Hall who saw the ball how much is a dreadful game of RL that bar the scoreline was not what I think RL should be about.

Attendances? Perhaps we market / target punters better? I bough a GF ticket from the RFL the last time we went. I routinely get offers / deals flung at my email account by the RFL. My first X number of season tickets were recorded in a ledger and a stub torn out at each game attended.

[cpwigan]

I have never brought anyones personal circumstances into it! So were as that come from? I have also deleted and apologised the 'idiot' post,

If someone would like to explain how i said having depression or not being able to afford going is a disgrace???

The only thing i have stated being a disgrace is when someone turns their backon the great game of rugby league for no reason other than you dont agree with the way the games going

Arghh,

Firstly none of these people care whether we win or not. They want to enjoy something that they spend their hard earned money on, give lots of time up for. Nobody is obliged to attend RL matches. It is the RFL and the member clubs job to make people want to watch that sport / club.

Many people are not convvinced and that is their choice.

I hate the play offs and every regular round match being pointless. Is that wrong? I loved Mission Impossible Seasons, winning a hard season on point difference, even Admired Offiah and Widnes defeating us in a Championship Decider at the old Naughton Park. I want that. Like Cherry the last time I had that sustained feeling about RL was fighting off relegation. Something we have now got rid off. I hate franchising, I like P & R!! Is that wrong?

[Bilko]

The only thing i have stated being a disgrace is when someone turns their backon the great game of rugby league for no reason other than you dont agree with the way the games going

the response wasn't all aimed at you so wind your neck in. Was just explaining my position. You don't agree, fair enough. I dont have a problem with that. But I wouldn't call anyone an "idiot" for having a different view.

[Warriors Forever]

Ive no problem with people not going to games if they dont enjoy the game anymore or the direction its going, i just find it bad to turn your back on the game altogether because of it.

Also i do not agree with any of the play offs , whoever wins the league should do just that and be crowned champions but that would personally never stop me going to the games