Six month ban for Flower

[Owd Codger]

So cp, TBWs and others arguement seems to be summed up as this.

We should have complained in the media at length and during the discaplinary meeting. We should have visibly been protesting that LH should have been banned longer and BF was provoked.

And they think that the outcome would have been better - i.e. a longer ban for LH and a shorter ban for BF.

I disagree. The ban would have been longer and could even have been shorter for LH. The club would have looked like we were condoning the second punch regardless of whether we had been or not - thats what the press would have reported. The only upside of this would be to keep RL in the spotlight, but that's not an upside for Wigan RL.

We had a damage limitation situation which we handled as well as was possible in the circumstances.

We now have to have new resolve to fix the problems that other posters have rightly highlighted. Don't get me wrong - I agree with the general point about the massive lack of consistency in the discaplinary. But the way you play you hand is not to get all angry and go off half cocked. Make a plan, get some support, execute it at the right time - and ultimately force the RFL to reform. Thats how real operators work. You're not going to achieve that by shouting at them right now when we have not got a leg to stand on.

Exactly, and Flower has got the punishment that most expected in view of the media attention in the world and them waiting to pounce if he got off with a low ban.

What is wrong is that Hoheia has not been given the maximum ban of three games for a Grade 2 offence and should not have been allowed a early guilty plea due to him being responsible for the incident taking place.

[gillysmyhero]

Who decides what grade a player is charged with ? as they decided that LH was only worthy of a grade B so limiting the actual amount of game bans that the disciplinary panel can give.

[Wigan_forever1985]

WF1985, you state that Ben received more games because it was televised and if it had not been then he would have received less games. You then say Ben's ban is fair, surely that is a contradiction as whether the game was televised or not should not affect the punishment handed out!!

LH's ban is nothing short of disgraceful rather than lenient, it is impossible to only get 1 game or should be by the letter of the law for what he actually did as you say on national tv with the whole country watching. So if there is consistency surely Hohaia should have received more games like Flower did because it was televised, oh hang on a minute no don't be silly!!

ONE RULE FOR ONE ANOTHER RULE FOR ANOTHER!!

No its not a condadiction because i stated also that unless you have automatic bans i.e punching = 8 matches, high tackle = 3 matches, then it is open to other factors. So in the current system as there is no "defined" length to put on it, given the occasion the "damage" to the sport etc etc you can say its fair and he cant of expected much less. Anyone who thought he was going to get 8 or less was kidding themselves. The RFL had to make an example of him they had no choice the world for once was looking in on this judgement.

Ironically they could of helped Ben because im 100% sure that St Helens would of pressed criminal charges should he of got a lesser ban, otherwise why would they of only stated after the event they were happy to leave it for the RFL to deal with.

Im not denying some "negotiation" has probably taken place here the fact people rightly point out we miss a st helens good friday fixture is definitley no coincidence.

Problem is Flower put himself in an undefendable position with that 2nd punch and people can rattle on about LH instigating it all they want that type of pushing and forearm barging/High tackle happens every game to varying degrees, punching is a regular occurence throughout the season, but its the problem with this one was you NEVER see a punched to the floor, pinned down and given another for good measure, its the rarity of it that makes it such a contentious issue.

However you want to dress it up EVERYTHING is about that second punch and looking at any other factor is fruitless because if you press pause at the time of the first punch we certainly wouldnt be talking about the whole thing now.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Why should Ben Flower be the fall guy because of the media frenzy, far worse has happened in the past yet he is made out to be the Devil. IT IS NOT FAIR!!

[josie andrews]

How long a ban did the "Saintly" Rangi Chase receive for breaking Tangi Ropati's jaw in another televised match?

Four games, Ropati was out of action for four months I think it was.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

How long a ban did the "Saintly" Rangi Chase receive for breaking Tangi Ropati's jaw in another televised match?

Four games, Ropati was out of action for four months I think it was.

....but remember guys it was not in a Grand Final so that makes it all ok!!

[cpwigan]

So cp, TBWs and others arguement seems to be summed up as this.

We should have complained in the media at length and during the discaplinary meeting. We should have visibly been protesting that LH should have been banned longer and BF was provoked.

And they think that the outcome would have been better - i.e. a longer ban for LH and a shorter ban for BF.

I disagree. The ban would have been longer and could even have been shorter for LH. The club would have looked like we were condoning the second punch regardless of whether we had been or not - thats what the press would have reported. The only upside of this would be to keep RL in the spotlight, but that's not an upside for Wigan RL.

We had a damage limitation situation which we handled as well as was possible in the circumstances.

We now have to have new resolve to fix the problems that other posters have rightly highlighted. Don't get me wrong - I agree with the general point about the massive lack of consistency in the discaplinary. But the way you play you hand is not to get all angry and go off half cocked. Make a plan, get some support, execute it at the right time - and ultimately force the RFL to reform. Thats how real operators work. You're not going to achieve that by shouting at them right now when we have not got a leg to stand on.

Mike what has taking our punishment like good little boys achieved? I think we are all agree that the RFL disciplinary process is flawed to the point of absurdity. Yet we endorsed / praised that very process and gave the green light for the RFL to continue as they please. Our compliance failed the supporters and the players.

RL as a sport was damaged far more by the Kangaroo Court than by the uncharacteristic actions of Ben Flower.

[Wigan_forever1985]

Why should Ben Flower be the fall guy because of the media frenzy, far worse has happened in the past yet he is made out to be the Devil. IT IS NOT FAIR!!

Its life though, a drunk driver killing someone and getting 3 years isnt fair but it happens. If i speed at 70mph in a 30mph zone and there are no police around i get away with it another person may get done for 33 in a 30 zone and not.

I go back to the same argument i had with the Gaz Hock thing, no one forced Ben Flower to pin down lance hohaia and smack him for that second time, he made that choice, he made it wrong. The stage he made it on has influenced his ban no doubt, but he was in the wrong. Saying others get away with less doesnt make what Flower did anymore correct.

I agree with whoever posted the comment along the lines of Flowers ban was probably correct its others that have been wrong rather than the other way round.

The RFL were under massive pressure from the media to deal with Flower which they have done. Like ive said this may work in Flowers favor, a short ban would of led to this issue being dragged out, it would of been all over the press everytime we won and match that he shouldnt even be out there etc etc.

This ban gives Flower and the sport time to move on, he is still only young and he has his best years as a forward ahead of him. 10 games (realistically) is not that bad, the season doesnt start till the play offs anyway so he will be more than up to speed.

Wigan fans kicking off IMO are making the situation worse we should accept it and move on let the subject go, get back to the grand final and watch Ben have the game of his life and then he can put this all behind him.

[AncientWarrior]

This was an ideal opportunity for Sky to liven-up an otherwise dull sporting weekend (England away in Estonia -and shown on ITV anyway - and the golf in Portugal rained out completely) and they took advantage of it. The second punch was shown in slow motion several times an hour on Sky Sports News and on Sky News. Even newspapers who couldn't devote more than three or four column inches during the week leading up to the Final, suddenly found unlimited space for this incident.
Suddenly, people who knew nothing about the game, had an opinion. There was an unprecedented hue and cry for Ben Flower's head on a plate - and the RFL duly obliged.

A responsible organisation would have adjourned a) the level of the charge; and b) the finding and punishment, until the furore had died down. There was no need for an immediate decision it being the last match of the season. Wiser heads could then have examined the full incident in the cold light of day and produced a fairer decision.

BTW can we put to rest this impression that he may have been prosecuted? As a former member of the police of thirty years standing, I can confidently state that if he repeated that assault on King Street on a Saturday night with that same result he would leave the nick with nothing stronger than a Police Caution ringing in his ears.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Why should Ben Flower be the fall guy because of the media frenzy, far worse has happened in the past yet he is made out to be the Devil. IT IS NOT FAIR!!

Its life though, a drunk driver killing someone and getting 3 years isnt fair but it happens. If i speed at 70mph in a 30mph zone and there are no police around i get away with it another person may get done for 33 in a 30 zone and not.

I go back to the same argument i had with the Gaz Hock thing, no one forced Ben Flower to pin down lance hohaia and smack him for that second time, he made that choice, he made it wrong. The stage he made it on has influenced his ban no doubt, but he was in the wrong. Saying others get away with less doesnt make what Flower did anymore correct.

I agree with whoever posted the comment along the lines of Flowers ban was probably correct its others that have been wrong rather than the other way round.

The RFL were under massive pressure from the media to deal with Flower which they have done. Like ive said this may work in Flowers favor, a short ban would of led to this issue being dragged out, it would of been all over the press everytime we won and match that he shouldnt even be out there etc etc.

This ban gives Flower and the sport time to move on, he is still only young and he has his best years as a forward ahead of him. 10 games (realistically) is not that bad, the season doesnt start till the play offs anyway so he will be more than up to speed.

Wigan fans kicking off IMO are making the situation worse we should accept it and move on let the subject go, get back to the grand final and watch Ben have the game of his life and then he can put this all behind him.

The bold bit says it all, just because it is life doesn't mean it is right. If people remain with that attitude then LIFE will get a whole lot worse, time to stand up and be counted rather than being passive.