Sam to Catalan?

[The Yonner]

If I remember correctly, Shaun Wane was none too enthusiastic about Sam's return in his public comments at the time, so notwithstanding the hiring and firing decisions lying with IL & KR I suspect this decision not to renew Sam's contract is highly influenced by SW's wishes.

I have said in previous debates about SW's capabilities as coach, that rather than modelling himself on the master coaches that he played under, Lowe and Monie, as you might expect, his philosophy is more reminiscent of Vince Karalius than anybody else.

If you have read Bill Ashurst's autobiography, you will know that Karalius hated flair, and systematically suppressed any deviations from his strategy - namely to have a super fit set of "athletes" who would beat the opposition simply by being fitter and "tougher". So he drove away the flair players and made do with solid and dependable types which ultimately took us into the second division - sound familiar?

The club management need to consider what happened in more recent times when our sole flair playmaker was moved on (Andy Farrell in 2005 and Terry Newton in 2006)and the club needed to cheat the salary cap to avoid dropping into the second division.

As Leeds and Warrington have found out in the last two years, you don't have to slip much to drop from championship contenders to the Middle Eight.

Giving up your only world class flair player to accommodate more mediocrity and a full back with doubtful temperament is a dangerous strategy, which will further alienate the fans.

[Wigan_forever1985]

What a difference a season makes, last year the majority of fans were criticising Sam and wanted rid. Now, the majority of the fans want the club to resign him no matter what the cost. What a set of fickle supporters we have at Wigan!

We are not party to all the goings on and we have to trust that the club get this right, if we don't agree then we can vote with our feet. Obviously, from IFL's point of view he needs to get it right as it could damage his significant investment.

Or is it that he was very poor last season and it was unknown whether he would regain anything like form - now he has he does have a huge worth to the team, if he played like he did last year this year id be packing his bags for him

Nothing fickle about it, that's sport!

[DaveO]

I have said in previous debates about SW's capabilities as coach, that rather than modelling himself on the master coaches that he played under, Lowe and Monie, as you might expect, his philosophy is more reminiscent of Vince Karalius than anybody else.

If you have read Bill Ashurst's autobiography, you will know that Karalius hated flair, and systematically suppressed any deviations from his strategy - namely to have a super fit set of "athletes" who would beat the opposition simply by being fitter and "tougher". So he drove away the flair players and made do with solid and dependable types which ultimately took us into the second division - sound familiar?

The club management need to consider what happened in more recent times when our sole flair playmaker was moved on (Andy Farrell in 2005 and Terry Newton in 2006)and the club needed to cheat the salary cap to avoid dropping into the second division.

As Leeds and Warrington have found out in the last two years, you don't have to slip much to drop from championship contenders to the Middle Eight.

Giving up your only world class flair player to accommodate more mediocrity and a full back with doubtful temperament is a dangerous strategy, which will further alienate the fans.

I couldn't agree more. You last point seems lost on many and if he does leave, on the club as well.

It seems it's always Jam tomorrow currently at Wigan. Today we have Sam T and he is as good as he is. We get rid leaving the side less capable hoping we can sign a player with a dubious reputation tomorrow. In the meantime the club seems to think it can get by with a line up in key positions of Powell, Williams and Escare with the first two less than inspiring so far this season and us relying a great deal on the player the club looks to be letting go.

Maybe it thinks given the standard of SL it can get by and even win things with this standard of player but they are taking a serious risk here with the fans loyalty. Wigan fans are used to seeing quality players at the club. Home grown like Lockers and Sam T or brought in. I am sure the fans could understand it even if they didn't like it when players went for big money to the NRL or RU but to be letting one of your few quality players leave to another SL side is not good enough.

Lets hope Mrs Tomkins doesn't like the look of France!

[josie andrews]

Giving up your only world class flair player to accommodate more mediocrity and a full back with doubtful temperament is a dangerous strategy, which will further alienate the fans.

Can you tell me who this player is with a “doubtful temperament” please?

[moto748]

Lets hope Mrs Tomkins doesn't like the look of France!

I wouldn't hold your breath!

Like you, Dave, and nearly all Wigan fans, I suspect, I'd much rather see Sam Tomkins here than Zak Hardaker. Mostly because ST is a much better player. But sefc is right that we don't know all the ins and outs and cost implications. What if ST wants to leave? Can we hang onto him for another year? Is that feasible? If it's true what some have said, that he doesn't want to play at full-back, should the club acquiesce to that? It is not straightforward.

[moto748]

Giving up your only world class flair player to accommodate more mediocrity and a full back with doubtful temperament is a dangerous strategy, which will further alienate the fans.

Can you tell me who this player is with a “doubtful temperament” please?

Surely the poster is referring to Zak Hardaker?

[josie andrews]

Giving up your only world class flair player to accommodate more mediocrity and a full back with doubtful temperament is a dangerous strategy, which will further alienate the fans.

Can you tell me who this player is with a “doubtful temperament” please?

Surely the poster is referring to Zak Hardaker?

Ha! Thank you because I was thinking of Morgan Escare at FB, I’d forgot about the Yorkshire lad!

[josie andrews]

Where would Sam play at Catalan?

They have David Mead at FB, who may be a pace or two faster than Sam. And they are chasing two NRL halves!

[DaveO]

Lets hope Mrs Tomkins doesn't like the look of France!

I wouldn't hold your breath!

Like you, Dave, and nearly all Wigan fans, I suspect, I'd much rather see Sam Tomkins here than Zak Hardaker. Mostly because ST is a much better player. But sefc is right that we don't know all the ins and outs and cost implications. What if ST wants to leave? Can we hang onto him for another year? Is that feasible? If it's true what some have said, that he doesn't want to play at full-back, should the club acquiesce to that? It is not straightforward.

I find it frustrating that only Wigan seem to have "ins and outs" with players futures. If he doesn't want to play FB given this to my mind is a better option than Powell in the halves it ought not to be a matter of the club acquiescing but the club saying "hell yes!". If he is disenchanted he's not in the halves he's in tune with many fans opinions and if we let him leave to stick with Powell there then the club has well and truly lost the plot.

[moto748]

So you are saying you don't mind "player power" telling the coach what to do, because in this instance you don't rate the coach or his preferred selections? If that is the case, I think it's a somewhat dangerous road. What I will say is that I think it's far from self-evident that in the halves is Sam's best position, and even if he plays at full-back, we have other options in the halves (Escaré, Woods, Shorrocks) if Powell does not perform. If Wane continues to select Powell at 7 and he plays poorly for the next few games, then you have a case.

Me, I am not panicking just yet, we are second in the league and scoring plenty of tries. We have two big tests coming up; let's see how we get on.