Wigan squad for Challenge Cup Final

[saint]

Part 1 of the "saints double" safely in Wigan.

You must have been hibernating…… we are going for 4 In A row , double is a 90’s thing !

I won’t comment on the game , will be interpreted as being bitter !

You have the cup ‘ Just like that ‘ Wigan ‘ Tommy cooper ‘ warriors .sorry , couldn’t resist !

Have a great few days , enjoy our misery ! Have a drink on us

I have got to give you credit Saint for coming on this forum and giving Wigan some credit. It sets you apart from the morons on Red Vee. Nevertheless, trying to dumb down Wigan’s previous achievements, which set them apart from any other rugby league team on the planet is so disingenuous. Saints winning 3 SL Grand Finals in a row is a great achievement but in no way compares to the success of Wigan in the 80s/90s. I will have a great weekend celebrating our history making success in fact, it will almost certainly do so over the bank holiday weekend as well

Thanks for the credit , appreciated. I love rugby league and love rugby discussion althoughthese forum are not the best place for it at times .

I seen every one of the Wigans CC wins during that period . Thankfully my folks took me to every final from 83-99 . I recall actually supporting Wigan for the 85 final ! By 87 I was a ‘ real’ saints fan So no more of that nonsense . My Dad was a big saints fan but supported Wigan in every one of the 88-95 wins . I guess my respect for opposition fans etc stems from him . In 88 I was sat on the greyhound track surround the pitch due to overcrowding so that was an experience .

That period was a great time for Wigan but not necessarily for rugby league . The playing field was not necessarily level during that time . Barry ledger for example told me he got paid 90 quid for playing a losing in the 87 final he would have got 150 for winning ( which would have topped up his salary from XXX glass factory. The 89 final our home grown lads wasn’t on much more and still working while playing .

In 88 Wigan players were being paid a full time salary when others were not collectively . Wigan had an massive economic pull for the best players . And boy did you have some great players . Some of the best players I’ve seen came from that period . World class players from 1-15 when the rest of the league could only manage 3 or 4 if they were lucky .

That’s on the field ,the pros was that Wigan as a club led the way in the future and that I commend . Maurice Lyndsey (God bless his soul) developed the Wigan model Into a professional and elite sport. By 96 the playing field had levelled and it’s fair to say Saints have probably excelled beyond most clubs aside from Leeds who maybe equal to us . From memory during the last 26 years 8 CC 8 GF winners league leaders ? 2 WCC . As well as this , built our own stadium and developed more players though our system that I suspect only Wigan could challenge . I did read a RL article stating that we have supplied the Two Tiers of English rugby with more players than any other . The continuous development is still happening with a drive for our ladies game and now scholarships now starting earlier and community collaboration more active then anywhere else ! During this period we have been the most successful team on and off the pitch . We have always , even in our down time been in finals and l there about Which is some achievement

I can’t take away that Wigan dominated English rugby no question during that period but you have had some mega lows . If my dads rugby history lesson serves me right you was relegated , and had a pretty poor time from 1960-1985 . Even coming close to relegation in the super league era.

What is more surprising is - please don’t take this the wrong it’s for discussion and not point scoring , is the seemingly acceptance of mediocrity within the Wigan team for many years ! Without sounding petulant ( my honest view ) I don’t rate the Wigan team now and has been lacking in quality for a few years ( and the fans acceptance and defence of such given your history is filled more in hope than ambition) . I rate matty peet . He is a breath of fresh air to our game and with the right players and balance you will get back on top again , no question . However some players are not fit to wear the jersey . I do not rate French and field is overhyped but has ‘ something’ speed . He scores for fun against Wakefield but can he do the same against a solid defence ? I’ve yet to see evidence .

Powell ? Is he Wigan standard. Mago ?

I could go on making points for debate and i love nothing more than rugby chat in a pub this isn’t the best place for discussion as it often turns into point scoring . Just want to make it clear I’m not writing this for that purpose .

I’ll finish on the game ! The worst team won , the second to worst team lost , there wasn’t a best team .Hudds did a park the bus style job the very nearly worked. I find it difficult how some people have commented about Smithies that he was right not to be sin binned ( at least) on two occasions he purposely issued a forearm to the head . Direct contact with the head as we have seen this season is a straight red . To do it twice and not see a card is baffling . He should have had a least 10 . What’s disappoint is smithies has not realised the effect that could have had . Flower in the final arguably lost his team the cup for his actions . Smithies could well have done the same . Smithies is , I’d say average maybe a little more but worthless if he offers actions like that .

You struggled to break Huddersfield down and that must be a worry and equally back up my premise that I don’t rate Wigan as a team ( yet)

I’ll say again, I’m adding to discussion and not in away arguing or point Scoring . I’m not saying I’m right - but the points made are my belief and I’ll stick by them until I see otherwise . When I do , I’ll come back on here and hold my hands up .

You are our fierce rivals , but I have nothing against any of you ! On the whole good people and I say again . Well done on your win ! I’m now desperate for a show down in the final . I need revenge so I can be at peace

[The Yonner]

You make some valid points Saint.

As to the quality of the game, I would say the final was pretty typical of the game these days. Too much emphasis on completing sets of six and little attention to enterprising attacking play. The last big game where both finalists got the balance right was the Grand Final of 2016 in my view. There has been a decline across the board since I think.

Ironic that the high tackle on Farrell gave an opportunity to Wigan to take an injury time out to calm down and compose themselves for that match winning attack. Up to that they were like headless chickens.

I'm hoping the World Cup will give a boost to more controlled and exciting attacking play, when we see the top class Aus/NZ stars show up our game.

[DaveO]

Wigan went full time in the 91/92 season not 1988. Players who had other jobs or businesses such as Ian Lucas who had an antiques business packed them in or sold them. Particularly bad luck in Lucas case as his career was ended playing in a Test Match Match in Australia in 92.

[Mike]

Ged Byrne was a window cleaner, but he left before we went full time. He was my favorite player back then. We went on the coach to the Wakefield match in 1990 or 91 mainly to see how he was getting on. I think my mate even bought himself the wakefield kit that looked a bit like a US flag just to support ged!

[Mickw]

Could somebody tell me how many mins Mago played?

Played or was on the pitch.

I looked on the day and saw he came on after 54 minutes but no idea if he stayed on or not.

did 12
Mins but was bolloxed after 5

[pearsy]

So is Mago carrying a injury or have we got another Burgess How many mins did he do back in Aus ?

[morley pie eater]

Quote from "saint"

Wigan dominated English rugby no question during that period but you have had some mega lows . If my dads rugby history lesson serves me right you was relegated , and had a pretty poor time from 1960-1985 .

I like to read your stuff and accept that you are giving genuine opinions and not trolling. However, your dad's history lessons are not totally accurate, particularly re the 60s:

We had a great team at the start of the 60s. We got to Wembley (then the pinnacle of the game) in 61, 63, 65 and 66. The 1965 final against Hunslet (my first) was rated the best ever by many.
We lost to Wakefield in 63 and your lot in 61 and 66. But the 66 final deserves closer inspection.

I'm not a complainer and don't blame refs etc when we lose. What happened in the 1966 final was way beyond anything in the 50-odd years since then, and resulted in a rule change that we accept as normal and right up to this day.

We had signed Colin Clarke from Orrell RU as our hooker, replacing the great 50s/60s number 9, Bill Sayer, who signed for . . . Saints! Clarke copped a ban for the final and Wigan didn't have a replacement hooker in the days when they actually tried to win the ball in every scrum . . . and there were plenty scrums.

The rule up to that time was that offside resulted in a scrum, not a penalty. Now a certain Alex Murphy was the Saints scrum half that day, and he saw his chance. Every time Wigan had the ball, Murphy would wander offside. Result - scrum. Result of scrum - Saints ball.

You can argue that it was "within the rules", but in any moral or fair-play sense it was cheating. The team that broke the offside rule benefited by getting possession! And that's why they changed the rule to give a penalty for offside from the start of the 1966-67 season.

The decline of the Wigan team did start around 67 as players like Boston, Ashton and son on were getting older.

[saint]

Quote from "saint"

Wigan dominated English rugby no question during that period but you have had some mega lows . If my dads rugby history lesson serves me right you was relegated , and had a pretty poor time from 1960-1985 .

I like to read your stuff and accept that you are giving genuine opinions and not trolling. However, your dad's history lessons are not totally accurate, particularly re the 60s:

We had a great team at the start of the 60s. We got to Wembley (then the pinnacle of the game) in 61, 63, 65 and 66. The 1965 final against Hunslet (my first) was rated the best ever by many.
We lost to Wakefield in 63 and your lot in 61 and 66. But the 66 final deserves closer inspection.

I'm not a complainer and don't blame refs etc when we lose. What happened in the 1966 final was way beyond anything in the 50-odd years since then, and resulted in a rule change that we accept as normal and right up to this day.

We had signed Colin Clarke from Orrell RU as our hooker, replacing the great 50s/60s number 9, Bill Sayer, who signed for . . . Saints! Clarke copped a ban for the final and Wigan didn't have a replacement hooker in the days when they actually tried to win the ball in every scrum . . . and there were plenty scrums.

The rule up to that time was that offside resulted in a scrum, not a penalty. Now a certain Alex Murphy was the Saints scrum half that day, and he saw his chance. Every time Wigan had the ball, Murphy would wander offside. Result - scrum. Result of scrum - Saints ball.

You can argue that it was "within the rules", but in any moral or fair-play sense it was cheating. The team that broke the offside rule benefited by getting possession! And that's why they changed the rule to give a penalty for offside from the start of the 1966-67 season.

The decline of the Wigan team did start around 67 as players like Boston, Ashton and son on were getting older.

That’s a great post and interesting to read - you only get one side of the story ! Sadly the ‘legal cheating’ has manifested again over the last few years perhaps has never left but I’ll have to watch the game and look at that from your perspective .

I only have highlights of the 61 final but the full 66 game so I will watch with interest.

I’m led to believe Murphy was partial to some dark arts , I believe He had Syd Hynes ( not sure if correct spelling ) sent off for Leeds whilst playing for Leigh in the CC final . Apparently Murphy play acting when hyens attempted head but , missed Murphy who hit the deck pretending to be asleep ? I did ask Murphy this when I was a kid and met him - he said he did get knocked out and hynes rightfully got sent off ?! The TV footage I have doesn’t show the incident but only the after affects and I’m not convinced he was knocked out .

[DaveO]

Isn’t the Hynes incident the one where Murphy ends up on a stretcher but sits up and start laughing his head off after the sending off?

[Charriots Offiah]

One thing is for sure, Alexander Murphy was one of the greats. A rugby league brain second to none.